Worried about DD and DGC

Short of kidnapping her and employing someone to hold her captive until she comes to her senses, there is nothing you can do, until she is at rock-bottom. Anything you do will be seen as interference. Bossiness. Until SHE is ready to call it a day. I do so feel for you, but I think yopu have to stay detached without enabling her. Don't help her clear up, just be there, I wonder if he takes drugs?

sugarpuff I'm sorry for you.

20 demanding calls in one afternoon? Neglect of personal surroundings? Something isn't right there...

Hi Janerowena
I would love to kidnap her and the kids and keep them all safe and well cared for but I know what you mean.
I thought she would have come to here senses after the previous partner because there surely cannot be anything much worse than seeing your child nearly killed by their own father.
The previous partner took drugs but I dont think this one does. He smokes a lot, drinks a fair bit and had some weird involvement with gambling. My daughter stopped his bank card after that.
I am 10 years older now than I was at the first instance, my health is even less good than it was then and I seem to be less able to cope. Other family want me to be safe so they want me to stay back but she is my child and I miss what I cant have.
Sugarpufffairy

Sounds rotten to me !

I can't say that my daughter is in as bad a situation as yours, but her OH is very manipulative, Having said that, so was my Ex and it took me years to get rid of him. I think things will come to a head eventually. If your daughter ever needs a roof, simply don't offer one to him.

If the house is that dirty, and always short of money, it may be worth a call to social care and health - they can often affect change

Could the man be suffering from depression?
If DD has a history of unsuitable partners, a pattern changing course may help - local Dv services could advise.

Your description has signs of your daughter's husband having addiction problems, whether to drink or gambling. Is there an Al-anon group near you? They help all the friends and family of someone with a drink problem, and help people "detach with love".

I am so sorry, it has to be so hard for you to watch on.
There is something not right, who would want to live in a dirty house and support a man who is so awful. If your DD is working she can't do everything, he is of no use, is DD subject to feeling low, perhaps it is easier to go along with his behaviour than to fight it.

What was house like with her ex.
I agree that perhaps rock bottom has to be hit, and then you do what you can for her and DGC, not him.

So sad for what you, and she, are missing.

I would think that your DD's previous experience with a drug user was at least emotionally damaging if not physical. Perhaps she now feels worthless and that makes her easy to control. You say your SIL is very manipulative and demanding. If she is emotionally damaged that makes her an easy target for a manipulative man. If she is being controlled I doubt she knows it's happening. I was controlled for over 20 years and it was only when I left that I realised what had been happening.

All you can do is be there for her. Let her know she's loved and that whatever happens you will always be there.

One thing though. If the house is disgusting I have to ask if you believe the children are safe and being nurtured. If you can't say yes to this question then you have to report them to social services. You can do it anonymously.

As Vampire says, in the interest of the children's well being alone you can anonymously contact social services. They can influence and guide and help professionally and are well able to cope with manipulative husbands.

Like tresco I wonder about addiction problems here. If DD earns good money and it vanishes at such speed it has to be going somewhere.

I am so sorry that you are facing these problems - our children's happiness is so dependent on the right choice of partner, and if they get it wrong there is little we can do except be there for them (and for the GC).

Who looks after your grandchild when your daughter is at work?

You say he smokes. Does he roll his own? Cannabis cannot be cheap.

With two elements of the "unholy trinity" of drink, drugs and gambling being mentioned, I'd be very surprised if the third one (drugs) didn't feature. What a worry for you.

Tresco makes a good suggestion, find some support for yourself.

I feel for you sugarpuff, it must be very difficult for you to look on and feel so helpless, I don't know what the solution is.
DD1, now 44 years old, has always chosen the wrong men, right from school days. I realized that she had to find out for herself and always kept my opinions to myself, which was very difficult. Now that her marriage to a cheating, manipulative, and controlling idiot is ending in divorce I have been able to speak my mind. At last she can see the truth, but if I had interfered I would probably have been excluded from their lives by him and never had contact with DD or my DGCs.

That's very true shysal. My ex did his best to isolate me from anyone who might help. The isolation helps to maintain the control.

I agree with those who say you should contact social services for the sake of the children. Go on, do it now.

If the house is so dirty I think your DD must be too depressed to cope or she would make sure it was done. She needs help but I don't know how you can get it for her but if SS are involved they may well know.

We have a relative who is married to a very manipulative controlling woman who had him convinced he was mentally ill when he wasn't. They went for counselling and she said the counsellor agreed with everything she said and that he was at fault and she was in the right so she stopped going. He was so stressed by her physical and emotional abuse that he alienated himself from his family. She would hit him and then call the police and say he hit her and he didn't deal with it at all. Eventually it came to a head and he tried to commit suicide. Now they are separated and he has spent time in hospital with sever depression but is finally coming out of it and seeing her for what she really is. He is back in contact with his family who are supporting him but it is going to be a long haul as they have children and she is being totally unreasonable and still calling the police, last time because she said one of his relatives had told a lie.

Hi everyone
Thank you all so much for the time and concern you have put into your replies.
I have tried before to get Social Services to help. I think a Social Worker went out to the house they were in at that time. This year they have lived at 4 different houses. The Son in Law told me that they Social Worker did not believe what I had said. I was never sure if that was the truth given that I had contact with Social Workers when I was a carer and had some stupid expereiences.
I dont think there is any drugs involved but I do know that they eat a lot of take away meals and eat out. He smokes made cigarettes. My daughter also smokes but not as much. They recently went on holiday for a long weekend and no doubt spent a fortune on rubbishy things and eating out. Yet they knew they were about to move house.
I have made an official complaint about the solicitor involved in the attempt to get the elderly now deceased person to buy them a house. I was subjected to pressure to buy them a car. I am also emotionally blackmailed to provide other things. I only give in to help the DGC.
It is in the news today that manipulation is now recognised as abuse. I feel like singing! This is what is going on all around here. Older ill people, wee kids and a wee widow in poor health,(me) everyone is being manipulated to fit what this man wants. Most people are leaving my DD's life therefore other children of similar age to DGC are also kept away. I need this to stop and hopefully the fact that manipulation is now recognised will help.
Thank you all so much
Sugarpufffairy

Where do these men come from? Who are their parents? I have never met anyone like that and yet if you read Mumsnet they are awash with thoroughly unpleasant types and yet seemingly grown women go for them.is it desperation for children that makes them shack up with anyone? Don't mean to hijack your thread Sugarpufffairy but I just don't get it.

I dont think that my daughter wants to be a single parent and be responsible for everything. She did say to me once that she feels she has enough responsibility. What she does not get is that this way she has 2 children and one huge lump of loud mouth lard!!
I have only met his mother twice and that for only a few minutes each time, but she did say to me, as a person she does not know, that the worst thing she ever did was marry her husband! I dont get why if she does not like being married to her husband she should leave. I have never met the man. I used to hate his mum but now I wonder. I hated her because he always went on about his mum but someone has indicated that the mum feels put upon by having to babysit so much and feels that she has to harrass them to take the children away again.
My daughter is being very sharp and is clearly irritated with him at the moment but he says he will not dump her. I would not take her carry on just now! It looks like she is a good meal ticket to him but he is draining her money and probably her spirit.
I dont get why my daughter is putting up with this. She has seen me cope on my own. She is or was highly intelligent. She choses bad men for some reason. It seems to be something that goes on a lot. Maybe I was a single parent but I knew where every penny went and no-one got near my money. I owned a flat and a car as a single parent so I cant have been too bad an advert.
Sugarpufffairy

Stansgran please understand that it is not just men. From where I am standing it is the other way round. I just don't think that men admit to being bullied by women and it is hard for them when assaulted if they don't want to hit back and don't feel they can admit to being bullied by a woman.

One of the things that both AA and Al-anon remind us is that you can't change other people, only oneself. So there is not point doing what you have always done, if the situation isn't improving. (This isn't personal, just a general principle. Einstein said something like "insanity is repeating the same thing and expecting a different outcome.) So get help for yourself and think how you can change your behaviour - not to be unkind or uncaring but not to be so involved.
As others have said, the safety of the children is paramount, so badger the social workers if you feel they are in danger.
I hope things improve for you all soon.

Sugarpufffairy Oh how I recognise the discription of your SIL, my DDs x was similar in every way apart from the money manipulation with relatives,my DD is a very clever girl when it comes to education etc but when it comes to partner choice she is the pits and she now knows it,after several years of him constantly alienating her friends she had no one but us to turn to and he told her we where ashamed of her as she couldn't cope,all her friends stopped talking or visiting as he was so unpleasent and he turned violent for no reason when this happened enough was enough and her brothers dealt with the matter I have never asked what happened but he moved out pretty damm quick,do you have any family who can speak to him or does he frighten everyone with his attitude,bullies hate it when they are confronted.
It took a long while for my girl to get rid of this person but until your DD reaches rock bottom I think you are going to have stand by and just keep watch and keep the door open for her,certainly get SS back on board and insist they help you.

Can you give SS a written account? They may take more notice if they have time to run down a list. But do ask to stay anonymous (for fear of recrimination) as he may use it to drive a wedge between you and your daughter.

Otherwise, as others have said, you can only wait and be there for them when you DD hits the bottom.

Oh, and you don't give them money do you? Food, clothes for the children yes, but never money.