Grandchildren Taken into Care

I'm so sorry to read this Sue. What a terrible situation. I'm sure some of those with experience of social work will advise you very soon on your best course of action.

How old is the second boy?

It does sound a terrible situation for you and for the children.

However, I am a bit regarding the one you call the girl. Is this the three year old? If so, she sounds as if she is rather a disturbed little girl who needs stability, love and perhaps some professional help. She is only three, if it is her saying these things then she is only re-enacting what she has picked up at home.
It doesn't sound as if you have much of a rapport with her, or in fact care for her very deeply. Would it be better if she was fostered elsewhere?
I know it is not a good thing to split up siblings but her future is at stake, poor little thing, as well as that of the boys.

Is it the 3yo girl who called the police? How are they all related to you? Is their mother your daughter? If not, maybe there could be a kinship fostering within the mother's family?

Jalima it will probably be that the authorities won't split siblings up

It is strange that a three year old comes straight in the house and says she ll call the police not a normal thing for a three year old to say I feel very sorry for this little girl who is obviously having to fight for everything and it sounds as if she is disliked by everyone No mother or father to care for her, half brothers who don't like her, and let's be honest you don't want her either she sounds as if she's got no one poor little scrap she's probably fighting for attention and love also no one has any idea what she has gone through with the men in her mothers life before she was taken into care

He's 6 Anya

They are my grandchildren Jalima, their mother is our daughter. It's the boyfriend who has been "coaching" the 3 year old to say these things but until she tells the Social Worker who told her to say what she said they cannot do anything about it.

That's what we think also BlueBelle. I was sitting at my desk and the boys were playing loudly and she came and sat right behind my chair. I asked her what she was doing and she told me that they were too loud so I asked if that was what she did when mummy and the boyfriend were shouting and she said yes she goes and hides in a corner. I felt really sorry for her.

Not really had a chance to get to know her as I had breast cancer when she was born and as I was disgusted by the daughter's behaviour (3 kids with 3 different men and the last one she could not even remember whether he was black or white!!!) was the last straw for me.

I'm so sorry to read this sad story. I think its important you keep in contact with the social worker, ask for ongoing direct contact with your grandchildren and involve the 10 year old in that.

Did your daughter place her oldest child with you, or was their social work involvement in that ? Do you have any kind of legal order, like a residence or special guardianship order. It sounds as though there are long standing concerns about your younger grandchildren if they have been removed and placed with foster carers. The presence of a new partner in itself wouldn't usually lead to that, unless mum had been given endless warnings about the risk he posed to her children. The fact that adoption is being talked about so early in the process does suggest some kind of assessments led to the removal, rather than an emergency

It sounds as the the two children have had a tough time, as you say if a little 3 year old talks about hiding in a corner when grown ups are shouting, that is a very significant and sad state of affairs. I think you need some legal advice and to think very carefully about what you want and what you can do in this situation. Yes, it's important to keep siblings together but sometimes other issues mean that isn't always possible.

You mention that the sw said the little girl is adoptable but the 6 year old boy isn't. That suggests they might consider a family placement with you so the little boy can grow up in his family, along with his brother. Have you seen a solicitor?

SueBee47 You are in a desperate situation, but I am a little unclear of the ins and outs so I hope you do not mind if I try to summarise your situation.

Your daughter has sadly led an unsettled and unstable life and has three children, all with different fathers. She is currently in a relationship with a physically and mentally abusive man.

Your three GC are 1) a 10 year old boy who has lived with you since birth, 2) a 6 year old boy who spend most of his time with you and, presumably gets on well with his brother, 3) a 3 year old girl, who you do not know well because of your health problems when she was born and the fact that your daughters behaviour had driven you to breaking point at that time. This child has spent her whole life with her mother and been the 24/7 victim of the abusive household she has lived in and is herself, clearly very disturbed.

Of your grandchildren, she is the one who needs you most. None of what has happened to her is her fault. She did not ask to be born or live in such dire circumstances nor did she do anything to assist her parents in making her so disturbed. She is the entirely innocent victim of your daughter and her partners.

If you possibly can, and I can understand why you are thinking twice about taking on all three children, with one clearly very disturbed, take all three, but negotiate very hard with Social Services over the conditions. Your little grand daughter should be in nursery that can cope with her very special needs at this point. It should operate all year, not just during school terms so that during the holidays the boys have a time at home with you without her. Few boys of 10 and 6 have any interest in sisters aged 3, but only have her in nursery 4 days a week, so that in school terms you can give her your entire attention for one day to get to know her, have compassion for her situation and, hopefully, come to love her. In the holidays it will help her brothers adjust to having her around.

However do get some help and support for yourself. Contact the Family Rights Group www.frg.org.uk/ They have an advice line and can offer help and support in dealing with Social Services and yourself.

omg i feel for you i know social service can put a terrible strain on families, we have involvement with them we have gd (3) with us 2 yrs now on SGO but i have made it clear that i have no intension of having baby brother if the need arises there is only so much i can cope with (we are both 60)

Very sad for this little girl who no one seems to want .

Very wise words and good advice from Monica .

I feel sorry for you Suebee, it is a lot to take on particularly with your health problems, but this little girl seems to be the one suffering most before she is damaged even more. She really needs to be taken away from your DD and this man as soon as possible.
I hope a solution is found soon.

Good advice from M0nica.

Given the dreadful experiences the wee girl has had, and the consequent behaviour, I wonder just how adoptable she really is. It will require special people to take on a challenge of that enormity.

I really hope some help is forthcoming so that the best is done for everyone including the grandparents.

I suppose it depends on how long her mother has been with that man and how much she has witnessed and how she has been treated.

Unfortunately it doesn't sound as if anyone has the time for her and all her naughty behaviour is attention-seeking - even negative attention is better than none.
Poor little scrap.

Yes, they will, SueDonim, they will need a lot of patience, knowledge and love.

M0nica I am not sure that the little girl is the one who needs her grandmother most. For a grandmother to say fine, she can be adopted and we'll have the boy is, to my mind, displaying a degree of coldness and indifference to this child which does not bode well for her future emotional health, added to which grandmother has health problems and may find it difficult to cope with three lively children and all the traumas they have been through.

Whatever happens I hope all works out for the best for all of you SueBee

Jalima is right in her comments about the needs of this 3 year old girl. For a number of reasons, SueBee and her family don't have an existing relationship with the little girl and have found her difficult during the rare occasions she's been with them.
SueBee, her husband and 10 year old granson have had regular and positive meetings with her 6 year old grandson. We don't know why the sw suggested this little boy isn't adoptable. It may be that's based on an assessment of the little boy, as well as professional understanding of the prospects of a successful adoption for him.
Separating brothers and sisters must always be a last resort and these days, it doesn't automatically mean they lost contact with each other.

Family Rights Group has a good website and whatever happens, I hope it works out as well as it can for everyone.

The kids were taken of our daughter because of the boyfriend's past record and she would not given him up for them. Also I did not say "fine have the girl adopted we'll take the boy". The SW said that the girl was adoptable as she is only 3 but the boy is not as he is older. We only said the boy was adoptable because we would have him here but had to think long and hard about the girl due to the false allegations that she made against me. Also we only live in a bungalow. My health is fine now but it was not when she was born.

Thank you all very much for your help and I will go and look at the Family Rights Group website.

Sorry Suebee you have my every sympathy and nobody can put pressure on you to take on 3 children if you feel you cannot cope, nobody could blame you. However, I think suggestions and comments are made kindly and with your welfare at heart, as well as touching our heartstrings as grandparents, and these were your exact words

but the Social Worker has said that they do not like splitting siblings up but in another meeting he said she was adoptable but the boy was not, to which we replied that's fine she can be adopted and we'll have the boy

First things first, talk of an accident-prone child who rushes about and bruises themselves all the time makes me suspicious, particularly if that child uses violence and threats to get what bshe wants. She has seen this behaviour and probably been on the receiving end.

Whoever takes on this troubled little girl will need a bottomless pit of unconditional love and the patience of a saint. Can you do that, even when you are annoyed with her for grabbing her brother's toys and breaking them - that brother who she sees is loved and wanted? Rejecting her and taking on her brother is telling her she is worthless and no-one likes her or wants her. (I suspect you think that in your heart anyway, or you would not have asked our advice.)

Her half-brother isn't showing signs of being disturbed at the moment, but he has lived in the same home in the same violence, so he will need careful handling too - and learning that you could reject the girl will not make him feel stable, he will always be fearing that he could be rejected too. That will not make him happy either.

So the brothers don't want the sister? Well, boys of that age are never keen on small girls, but I see a divided house ahead, with the sister isolated.

Do the social workers have an experienced foster-mother who has looked after the children of a troubled family before who can take both together? Someone who will interpret the interactions between the two children and recognise telltale signs of abuse and rejection better than you can? I would say that is the best course for both children.

Very sensible and reasoned post Elegran and that would be the best solution if it is possible.

I think three children, two with emotional difficulties, would be a huge commitment for you Suebee and someone who is more experienced - and younger - would be better placed to give them both the time, attention and emotional support they both need.
If they are fostered I presume you would still have contact with them both.

Yes, best to have them both fostered with caring and experienced foster-parents who have seen it all before and can cope calmly with their problems. Meanwhile, you can be the grandmother who sees them often.

Wholeheartedly agree with your last two posts Elegran.

Are things any better now Sue?
Have any decisions been made for the DGC yet?
I am watching this carefully because I have worries too.
Hope you are coping well with this awful situation

Hello spf, hope things are ok with you.

HI Iam64
I am taking the road of avoidance now. I keep out of the way as much as possible. I never visit but have been visited. It was interesting to watch the reaction of workers at my house who saw what is my normal.
Meanwhile on the days when I feel well I am working towards my escape.
I had a visit from 2 people of a certain occupation and what they said has not improved my opinions.
Had DGC to visit, conduct was the worst I ever saw from DGC.
Hope things are all good with you
Thanks for asking.