Out of Control 14 Year Old Granddaughter - HELP!

I don't know what to say in general terms, but I suggest you get a good strong nit comb for your daughter. Daily combing (twice, as in morning and evening is even better) while there are head lice about will eventually clear an infestation without having to resort to chemical head treatments. Do it onto a white sheet or over the sink and then you can see if you've combed out any lice. Catching them before they lay more eggs is the trick but you have to keep doing it for a couple of weeks as eggs already there hatch.

I say this having done it successfully several times with Minibags while she was at primary school. She has thick, long hair and even though she made a fuss (understatement) when I brushed, combed or washed her hair normally, she willingly submitted to the nit comb.

Bless you, its not meant to be your problem.
The parents need to have firm boundaries and they shouldn't give in to pester power. So easy to say!!
Hormones are raging and maybe jealousy is major. Lots of love and patience, and maybe asking what she feels makes her gets so reactionary.

Wow. What a situation !!

I'm going to be a little harsh and say - far too much pushing and sapping here for my liking.

I don't think this is a situation you can remedy. Your Daughter( no matter how tiny) and her Ex need to get on the same page and stand up to these girls.

There's no respect ( on either side by the sound of it) and as you no longer live round the corner its not up to you tro get it. Your daughter and her ex have helped create this situation and they are the only people who can regain control.

Good luck .

First thing first, if you find yourself in that situation again, get everybody else to leave the room and don't physically interact at all. It is really dangerous ground and you could find yourself charged with assault if the neighbours had called the police. Slapping her to bring her to her senses is just not the answer. Violence never resolved violence without leaving resentment.

All of the adults need to learn not to shout back because all you are doing is raising the anxiety levels with all concerned. Just a quiet response is all that is needed. Other people shouldn't be getting involved because all you are showing your DGD is that the whole word is against her and she will be all the more emotional. I say this in all seriousness because my daughter was just the same as your DGD. I found that my frustration levels dissipated a little and although she was still as awkward, the rest of the house didn't go to rats. Think of it as a war situation, the bigger the posturing, the more people involved, the bloodier the conflict.

Secondly, your daughter needs to pick her battles carefully. Yes, nits spread and it is better to treat all the family at once but couldn't she have compromised? Teenagers need to learn to negotiate and it would be a great way of showing you are listening to her.

It sounds like your DGD has difficulty in managing her anger and it may be because she panics internally when she is in conflict. Start the process of getting her help again. Just because it failed once, it doesn't mean it will fail again. Maybe family therapy would help because, quite frankly, it sounds like the whole family need it. I found ringing MIND very helpful because they pointed us in the right direction.

If it sounds like I have no sympathy for your daughter, believe me, I do and I understand your need to help. However, it could be you are unwittingly undermining your daughter because you are giving a message that you need to step in because she can't cope. Maybe get some help for your daughter as to how to manage because I'd bet she's beating herself up as to where she went wrong.

I won't even suggest you try to get Dad on-side because it doesn't sound like he has been very helpful but Family Therapy could be extended to him too.

Interchange "you" for your DD where necessary!

I agree with NanaandGrampy, too much physical intervention and not enough reason. It is the parents responsibility, they have created the situation and now need to deal with it. As a matter of urgency the whole family should have some counselling and the parents some help with parenting skills. I realise this all takes time, the GP needs to know how serious things have become. Nudejude you need to take a step back for your own sake and in the long term theirs. Teenagers need boundaries and parents will not be popular, it's so difficult when the hormones are raging.

Just to make things clear, I intervened at my daughters bequest because she simply could not reason with her daughter. Have you ever tried reasoning with an out of control teenager who is threatening and violent? What do you do with a teenager who will not accept boundaries and is physically threatening? Boundaries are all very well while you can enforce them, but short of physically holding them down, how are you supposed to make them stop and listen? I have since apologised to my granddaughter for the slap, and don't expect to be forgiven, but what we do need and what I had hoped to get, was not lectures telling us what we've done wrong, we already know that, but real constructive advice. So thank you to those who have given advice, but other than that if you don't have anything constructive to say, please don't comment, it isn't helpful.

I can only add that I feel for your daughter. My youngest daughter was the same as your granddaughter, but from day one. At school she pretended she could not read, yet turned out page after page of copperplate (we were in France) for homework. She 'refused' to learn her times tables, but caught offbeat was never wrong! The school rang me daily, telling me I was an appalling mother, sending her to school in the dead of winter in shorts (she had left home fully wrapped up in coat, hat, gloves and scarf) - the list was endless. Out shopping she'd throw WW3 if she couldn't have something -age 12 - and ran into a packed car park yelling 'Don't hit me, don't hit me' at the top of her voice, whilst refusing to come out. I died of shame so often I eventually became inured to it all...but on she carried. Psychiatrists didn't work, she sat and uttered not a syllable, counselling didn't work for the same reason. Eventually we returned to the UK but that didn't stop her. We were staying with her Godfather, but even his kind reasoning had no effect. Then, out of the blue, her father (on the missing list for 13 years) appeared and all she wanted to do was live with him. I fought through the courts to keep access to both her and her elder sister but the little **** told such whoppers that I'm amazed her nose didn't grow across the room and her tongue turn black; contempt of court had nothing on this. so she went to live with her 'adoring' father, who gave up trying to control her. God knoes where she is now, or with whom, as she hasn't spoken to me for 3 years of peace.

I wish your daughter the very best of luck and hope for a happier outcome. With help from other sources than relatives, which I know to my cost is almost impossible to obtain, she will eventually have a happy daughter, instead of the troubled she has at the moment. My wishes come from the bottom of my hear.t

The idea of getting everyone else to leave the room when all this shouting starts is a good one . She may then calm down enough to tell you why she is so unhappy /angry with the adults in her life . Talk in a low quiet voice and no physical contact it just escalates the situation. I thought back to my own childhood when I read your post and wondered why this sort of out of control behaviour happens these days . It must be to do with upbringing differences , I would never have shouted at my Mother/Teachers , It wasn`t an option! I have every sympathy for you being put in this situation , it is just not fair to expect you to step in . If the GD has seen shouting between her patents as a way of resolving issues then she probably doesn`t know any other way . I do agree with the poster who said `pick your battles` , if it is not important ie instant nit treatment then why make it a huge issue . All I can say is stay as calm as you can , never shout back , get her on her own and TALK when she is calm xx

The basic principle with a teenager is that you only take a stand over the very important things: drug-taking; getting into a car with a drunken driver friend; drinking to excess; risking unwanted pregnancy. All the rest is minor.

So....she did not want to wash her hair again: "I can see that it would be a pain to wash it again when you have just done it - I will see if there is another way to get rid of any nits you might have." All said quietly; subject closed for the time being. Offer a nit comb later, hopefully when she brings up the subject herself.

A few nits are not the end of he world; but getting into a battle over something so small is what she was angling for - and you all fell into her trap.

No shouting from the adults; no physcial chastisement from the adults. The adults must remain calm and, dare I say it, ADULT during these outbursts.

By following her lead, you are all makng the situation worse. She is basically a little girl who superficially enjoys having the power to wind everyone up and to play her parents off one against the other; but underneath it scares her.

Some family couselling is needed as, from what you say, this is a pattern that has existed throughout their childhoods.

The adults involved must make three rules:
- never shout or hit and always speak quietly and calmly.
- only challenege them when it is absolutely necessary - take a moment to really ask how important this bone of contention is.
- the adults in the situation must all give the same message. The most helpful thing you can do is to offer to look after the children while your DD and her ex sit down on their own together and agree the ground rules - and then they MUST back each other up over them.

I used to work in what was then Child Guidance and I know how following those rules can transform behaviour and home life. I am not suggesting it is easy to do - but it is simple and clear.

Nobody has lectured you OP.

Just disagreed that it was handled in the best way possible.

If your daughter cannot handle her own children then there is something seriously wrong, surely you agree? I think * ChristineFrances* idea of counselling is a way forward but Mum and Dad really need to get on the same page no matter their personal situation.

I would never try to reason with anyone who is this out of control, be it a 2-year old, a teenager or anyone. Their brains are in such a mode that reasoning isn't an option.

This should never have escalated to such a stage. Reading about the family situation with new partner and 'step brothers' (?) I'm not surprised this girl is upset and confused.

It is impossible to offer advice as it's your daughter who needs to learn some basic parenting skills and if she hasn't developed these before now, there is no quick answer.

This family need professional help.

PS I have every sympathy for you OP. It must be very distressing for you, especially on what ought t have been a happy, family visit.

my own daughter went through a phase like this ,the cause was she was being badly bullied at school and deciided not to tell us,when we tried to stop her going to a party (shhe was 13) she called the social work department ! The lady she spoke to took it in like soup all the wrongs we had supposedly committed...then asked to speak to us...she told us to" let the girl make her own decisions as we'd have to let her go sometime" to say I was raging is an understatement .We quickly learned that WE hhad to do things our way.We NNEVER said no to anything straight away ,always said we'd get back to her with an answer and usually she didn't want to do the thing she'd been desperate to do when we hhad made the decision.Teenage girls are hard work.My daughter is 38 now and a brilliant mum to her three kids and she often tells me she was a nightmare and cant believe we put up with it .YOUR grandaughter may well have untold issues with her parents seperation and the new man in their lives not to mention HIS offspring.I know its old fashioned of me but I really believe parents should be putting their kids before new relationships at what is already a difficult part of their lives .Your daughter could have found another man whe her girls are old enough to have their own lives!Would it have killed her to wait afew years and make them her priority?

I'm sorry your family is going through this turmoil, Nudejude. I don't think anything can be resolved when emotions are sky high. It's better to step back and consider how the situation can be defused. In this case, it's unlikely another day or two would make much difference to the nit situation (by the way, use lots of conditioner when you comb, it means the eggs can't stick so easily to the hair and has the side effect of leaving the hair smooth and glossy!) so backing off would have been the best thing to do.

As others have said, everyone getting out of the way would be best, because they either thrive on an audience or they are embarrassed and don't know how to get out of a situation of their own making.

I think you need to find a way to let her back down without humiliating her but without the parents being a pushover, either.

You could try reading a book called How To Talk so Teens Will Listen. There are some other books on my link, too. Try your library if you don't want to buy them.
www.amazon.co.uk/How-Talk-Teens-Will-Listen/dp/1853408573

I would agree - pick your fights, and this one that escalated out of control over the nits was just not worth it. Everyone was upset and you got to the point where you slapped your DGD.

I am not sure, but I have heard smothering the hair in conditioner with some tea tree oil then washing the next morning, combing with a nit comb, is effective and better than using chemicals.

A 14 year old - at a sensitive age, with hormones raging, mum and dad have split up, mum has a new partner - well, I can't help feeling sorry for her, she sounds as if she is a very unhappy girl. She is probably raging inside, can't express her feelings - perhaps doesn't even know what it is that upsets her - and it all comes out in these temper tantrums.
Shutting her outside and slapping her is not the answer.

There is some very good advice on here and some very constructive comments which may be extremely helpful and the way to move forward.

Can I ask - how long has your daughter known her new partner? How old are his sons and do they also live with them?

You really need to be in that situation to understand. All boundaries are broken, nothing you do will work, disrespect is rife the list goes on. Don't judge until you have been there because it is very very hard and difficult. Dealing with a young person who will not listen and that is the key. They act before they think and it can put you in very dangerous situation.

You have my sympathy too, NudeJude. I know how these situations can escalate. Teenagers can be completely unmanageable.
All I can think of is to go to Social Services for advice, but that would have to come from your daughter.(? maybe not)
And there's always the chance they might take the girl into care? I could be wrong about that, things could have changed since I was working.
Bon courage.

I do not think that anyone is judging Zandra - the OP asked for advice and I think there has been a fair bit of it on here where people have done their best to suggest both positive strategies and to comment on those things that are likely to make things worse. Posters have recognised (as the OP has said) that this is not just a teenage thing, but reflects a poor parenting style that goes back a long way, combined with a broken marriage. A very difficult mix.

There are no easy answers, and many of us have personal experience of teenage girls and know that it not easy. Judging the OP and her DD for how they handled the situation does not come into it - the OP recognises that things got out of hand and is not happy with how things worked out.

I hope that some of the basic strategies that have been suggested will help to move things forward - but nothing will happen overnight! Having said that I have seen remarkably speedy changes arising from sticking to basic rules, about which the adults agree.

I think Luckygirl has given some excellent advice. I think also sticking to the old adage 'never get into a fight unless you are sure you will win" is advisable. Teenage girls will always go further than anyone around them. It is hard because they know exactly which buttons to push. Asking yourself "What is the worst that can happen if I let this go?" is helpful.
Look at the situation you have described with this in mind. She might have had nits, she might have needed treatment for them. She would have been devastated but she would have learned to cooperate next time.
As far as her moods go have you looked at a hormonal factor? I was unbearable as a teenager and it wasn't until I was much older that I realised my mood swings were at certain times in my monthly cycle. If there is a pattern it might be worth speaking to your GP.
Everything matters so much to teenagers and they are under such a lot of social pressure. The events in her young life have affected her badly. She obviously responded well to your make-up request and a one to one session. Please try to build up more of these moments and don't get drawn in to her emotional dramas.

So sorry, Jude that you are in this awful situation. What is your granddaughter like at school? Does she act out there and is the school concerned by her behaviour? If so, then help and advice should be available from the Educational Psychologist.

Look this is emotional turmoil, kids getting shunted off to dads wanting to come back new boyfriend put his twopenneth in and everyone screaming, shouting, pushing and hitting in front of an audience of next door neighbours child and partners two sons
young teens are hugely difficult to handle they have raging hormones, probably feel the need to fight for attention ( even the wrong sort) and really don't know their role in the world add to that a new partner and his children and you have a complete boiling pot. Your daughter has shown her children that she cannot handle them, she's crying, screaming begging for help from whoever she can and she is probably the ones needing the most help this in turn will make the children whatever age feel very unsafe

It sounds as if it's gone much too far I think your daughter needs some parenting intervention some help in how to handle these huge confrontations she needs to be stronger and totally calm a child won't argue with itself it needs the other person to fight with also as others have said let things go if there not over important otherwise they just become a huge battle of wills which your daughter won't win

I m amazed the girl didn't run away that may be the next move

Difficult all round and you have my empathy but it needs to be handled very differently

If that was directed at me NudeJude, I have dealt with violent, aggressive teenagers and I have never, ever had to use physical violence with any of them. I was a youth worker in my younger days in a deprived area and they were very aggressive, often using snooker balls to hurl about. Not pleasant at all.
My own daughter had "issues" and it was very frustrating, like living on a knife edge. From my own experience, it was very obvious when I shouted back (I'm not a saint) things just escalated more.
Boundaries are all very well while you can enforce them, but short of physically holding them down, how are you supposed to make them stop and listen? May I respectfully suggest that in the heat of the moment, you won't get them to stop and listen?
You could always try ringing Childline and they might point you in the right direction for where you can get help with strategies if you don't find Gransnet helpful.

Reading about this situation I had a mental picture of eveybody being in the same room. Would it help if, when she has a tantrum - a strange word for a 14 year old - you others could leave the room quietly. I remember a daughter of mine refusing to wash her hair or have a bath and a friend who worked in child guidance, said she was wanting to get control of her own life and I was to back off!

I did and put up with the smell keeping a smile on my face and then it was all over in a week or two.

DD2 told me she had been told to hug a child in a tantrum and that it cost her a lot of self control to do this but it worked. Still 14 years old is differnt but it seems to me that may be what she needs.