Any orthodontists among us?

I had the four very back teeth removed when I was about 12, to allow more room for the other teeth to spread out. DD also had those teeth removed, and wore a brace to straighten her front teeth for a couple of years (thumb-sucking too!).

I don't think a dentist would remove healthy canines, and their twistiness could be corrected by a brace.

Eldest son, now 31, had his incisors removed by orthodontic dentist 20 years ago. This was part of a very long course of treatment. There have never been any issues and he has beautiful teeth. The orthodontist told us that incisors were the next teeth to be lost over time, after wisdom teeth. This was because we no longer need to rip our meat up with our teeth. They have grown smaller over thousands of years. I'm sure all will be fine. Xx

I too had back teeth removed because of overcrowding, I think it used to be quite a common solution.
Overcrowding can cause it's own problems I suppose, but you could always get a second opinion

I would definitely get a second opinion. I have been through orthodontistry with two children fairly recently - 2 different orthodontists - and they both told me that the view is very much against taking out healthy teeth nowadays. Both my two had quite severe overcrowding.

Of course there may be medical reasons in this instance. But like you (and having had teeth out to sort overcrowding myself) I would be suspicious that this may simply be a lazier, less complicated method of treatment.

Misread this ...thought it said ornithologist!!! was going to show off my knowledge of magpie, robin and thrush!

Bags, different orthodontists have different opinions so if you are not sure I'd get a second opinion. Removing healthy teeth from the back to make more room is a standard practice thats been around for years but some modern treatments have a different approach.
Opinions differ as to how much teeth move and, more importantly, whether they stay 'moved'. It varies from child to child also, room may increase as they develop.
It used to be the pre-molars that were removed....the ones after the canines, but some will take the molars with the idea that when the 'wisdoms' arrive they will have a bit more room also.
Just to say am not an expert its just that both I, my sister and then our children needed quite a lot of orthodontic work.

Where's Jane when you need her?

Just like to add..........its amazing how many quite crowded children's teeth sort themselves out as they grow. At one point my brother looked as if he would also need some work but he sort of grew into his teeth.
Its quite a chore, having teeth out, wearing a brace that has to be maintained (they are aweful for assisting decay) and I can still remember the pain of having them tightened (to increase the movement) bit like torture realy.

Just asked DH who suggested you ask the ortho if he can expand the arch which might work if only slight correction is needed. (see what I did there?)

Thanks for the replies. I'll certainly want a lot of convincing about removing healthy teeth. Her teeth don't look crowded at the moment and she's only twelve – still a lot of growing to do.

Besides which, teeth don't stay still. My teeth had gaps between them when I was in my teens and twenties. Now they are all crowded together and crooked (not too bad, just a bit annoying when there used to be plenty of space). And I had all my wisdom teeth out in my early twenties because they were coming in sideways and my dentist said they would cause problems because there wasn't enough room.

DD has just come in from school and said she's been in pain all day because the brace was tightened this morning. I offered her Calpol but she is going to be stoical.

I would definitely go for a second opinion if parents are not happy, although I too had 4 back teeth removed to deal with overcrowding and this solved the problem with no need for a brace.

However, my youngest DD had a strange dental problem - one of her front teeth (not one of the two main ones, but the one next to that) was a baby tooth still at the age of about 14, so they x-rayed and found that the adult tooth was lodged sideways in the roof of her mouth! The first orthodontist said he would remove the baby tooth, cut open the roof of her mouth and fit her with a spring-loaded contraption that would gradually pull the tooth out of the roof of her mouth and into place and that it would take many many months and probably over a year. DD looked slightly appalled as you can imagine. When I asked him what might happen if the adult tooth were removed and the baby tooth left - would the baby tooth just carry on? - he threw his dummy out of the pram and lots his temper!! I beat a hasty retreat!!

I sought a second opinion and a very nice lady dentist did exactly what I had asked about, saying this was the other option and this should have been offered to us - DD went into hospital and had adult tooth removed and she is still happily chomping on her baby tooth at the age of 30! If it does give up the ghost I promised her we would pay for an implant, but so far so good!

Mishap, sounds quite logical as most dentists explain that the 'baby' teeth are only falling out because the adult teeth are sort of pushing from behind. My children had a friend who had very few adult teeth waiting in the wings so the dentist explained that he would do everything he could to ensure the longevity of the 'baby' teeth.

Hello Bags, I am retired specialist dental nurse, working mainly with learning disabilities and medically compromised patients, I have had some experience in orthodontics and have treated many young patients needing extractions for ortho reasons. Your minbags must have had an OPT done (xray of entire mouth) which will have shown positioning of all teeth, ones present and also the unerrupted ones as well. The othodontist will probably make a decision based on what he sees on this xray. Most parents feel strongly about having healthy teeth extracted but it will give minibags a better chance of good oral health in the future. i.e. she will find cleaning easier with no areas of stagnation, which is one of the prime reasons for caries in between teeth. She will also have an even bite (occlusion) so foods can be masticated well, aiding a healthy digestive system. Of course as far as Minibags is concerned she will look beautiful and have a lovely smile. One word of warning, be careful about private dentists giving you information overload and then telling you that this will cost £xxxxxxxxx just make sure your are being advised by the orhtodontists attached your NHS health board. If this is not the case then ask for an urgent referral. Hope you find this helpful.
I will be interested in how it all goes.

I have been x-rayed to try and find my wisdom teeth - and there are none! I ventured the opinion that this might mean I am unwise, but the dentist said that, on the contrary, I am higher up the evolutionary scale as eventually no-one will have wisdom teeth - I am just one step ahaead!!

....even though I seem not to be able to spell ahead correctly!!

thistledoo I'm fascinated by your specialty because I have been wondering for a while about how the dentists cope with, say, patients with Alzheimers. My MIL has advanced AD but still loves her food and opens her mouth for the spoon like a baby, but from time to time she needs dental care. She recently chipped a tooth having been given chicken on the bone by one of her carers. I mean for starters, could an A patient experience toothache?

bags you've had loads of good advice and opinion, I don't really know much about orthodontics because both my children have inherited straight teeth from my side of the family . I went for a check up recently and the dentist ask me whether I ever had braces! I asked why? and she said my bite is near perfect.

Mishap - me too!

DH visits patients who are unable to visit a dental surgery. Anyone who requires treatment rather than replacement dentures or reassurance and advice is referred to the local Community Service or the hospital who can arrange transport and have wheelchair access and hoists etc.

Alzheimer's patients can feel pain but it is very difficult to diagnose.

Thank you, thistledoo, for your very helpful post. I might ask to see the x-rays and have a full explanation. No worries about private versus NHS though – it's all NHS as we're in Scotland. Our NHS dentist referred us to the orthodontist in the first place, and the ortho-d will get in touch with the dentist about any necessary extractions. It's possible that they may be avoided but I suppose she felt it best to warn us of the possibility.

Bags DH says that in his experience, ortho nowadays try hard not to do extractions so you were probably only being warned of a possibikty.

When I was 13 I was told I need teeth removing due to overcrowding. My mother was not happy and got a second opinion who said they would all straighten up on their own as my jaw grew. They never did. So come age 18, at college and the boyfriend stage I had to take the decision myself to have extra teeth removed and braces fitted. This lasted for two years and was a dreadful experience at that age.
Don't put minibags through that. Just because teeth are healthy does not not mean they are needed. As we have evolved smaller jaws our dentition has not adjusted to this yet.

My DGD had a problem at about 7/8 when one of her centre front teeth failed to come down - X-ray showed she had an extra tooth sideways stopping it coming down. She was operated on to remove this extra tooth at the Dental hospital and they attached a tiny gold chain to the good tooth so that should it fail to come down correctly it could be tugged - she grew very fond of wiggling the chain with her tongue!
Later she had to have two teeth removed from the top jaw due to teeth size causing great overcrowding ( her father had the same things done). She wore braces for about two and a half years. We discovered that many youngsters do not persevere with the treatment and because she did one of the student orthodontic nurses used her as a case study. After the braces came off she was extremely good at wearing the retainers for the specified period - one of the nurses having shown K her teeth and telling her that her teeth had slipped back because she had not worn her retainers after the braces came off.
Now she is almost 21 and has really lovely straight and even teeth. I often took her to the hospital appointments and have nothing but praise for the Dental hospital in Cardiff where everyone besides being very good at their jobs was truly caring and helpful with all the children and adults I saw being treated.

I hope Minibags has such wonderful care too. X

This is nothing to do with teeth removal, but thought you might be interested. Our son has learning difficulties (my blog), and when at school, he slipped and hit his chin on the window-sill, causing much bleeding and split lips, etc. As he does not talk, we had no idea how much pain he was in, and in any case, we have since discovered that he has a very high resistance to pain, so we just had to give him cool food, and drinks, until the swelling went down. At that time, his two top front teeth had just appeared, and when the swelling went down, we discovered that they were no longer there, and assumed they had been knocked out, we consulted the dentist about this, and although Robert would not open his mouth, being as he was, it was an almost impossible task, and the dentist was of the same opinion as we, that the teeth had probably been knocked out, he said that if the teeth had been knocked back into the gums, (another possibility) then Robert would have been in a great deal of pain, and thought that it was unlikely. About 2 years later, 2 front teeth appeared, and they are still there 40+ years on, a bit discoloured and short, and I still feel quite guilty about the pain our son must have been in, without being able to tell us.

PMed you Bags - but agree wioith Aka's last sentence