Greater Manchester to control £6bn NHS budget

I would like the National Health Service to stay national.

Jolly good wheeze if you ask me - when the money runs out it will be the council's fault and not the Government's. I absolutely agree with health and social care bring brought together but am concerned about this way of doing it. It's a very large scale 'pilot' which if it goes pear shed will affect the lives of many.

Well time will tell.

Yes, GrannyTwice, what one commentator called "a poisoned chalice".

I agree *soontobe" - the clue is in the name isn't it.

I do not think it will be any different from having an accident in Wales or Scotland, gracesgran.
I agree , it's being done by stealth like all other changes in the NHS.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-government-rules-nhs-contracts-5225230

I wonder how the Manchester wheeze will fit in with this?

It's already been signed off. Shame the people in Manchester did not know anything much about it.

www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=2636

Uh oh to the mirror link.
Will read the salford link later.

First thoughts re the salford link
It is all going to get highly complicated from here on in, in many ways.
There are going to be some grubbby mitts in amongst the money honey jar.

I cannot understand how it's been passed without the people of Manchester having a vote. It was signed off yesterday by Osborne and Cameron.

Is Osborne's constituency included in it?

durhamjen. You are largely in favour of big government? But not the break up of the NHS?
So what do you think of this?

x post. [I sometimes take a while to contrust or think about a post, and meanwhile someone will have posted].

I am not sure though that the people of Manchester would vote about it.

If it allows Manchester (arguably a very well-run city) to better integrate health and social care then that would be great. My concerns are - will Manchester be able to step up to this challenge - and it is a big one. Also - if they succeed will the solution be rapidly rolled out across the nation whether or not there is the management capacity and track record to make a success of it. Birmingham council for instance has had severe problems with education and social work and are hardly well-placed to take on a huge new challenge.
Also a bit worried about the notion that an elected mayor will be the icing on the cake for Manchester.

The worry is, JessM, that the supercouncils will then be scapegoated when things go wrong. There is no extra money involved for another big upheaval.

A few reactions to it.

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/commissioning/commissioning-topics/reaction-manchester-set-to-become-englands-first-devolved-health-economy/20009286.article

I would have thought that Manchester Council are going to have to employ a large number of extra staff for this, which have to be paid for.

I can only read and deal with large links like that in pieces.

Someone is already saying that the budget is not enough.
And I hate the way that social care is seen as a "leak". No it is not! It is all part of health. ranty rant.

As a Manchester resident I am cynical about the timing of this arrangement. Manchester Airport has recently been involved in massive handouts to boroughs in the vicinity i.e. Trafford, Manchester City and part of Cheshire so there will be a cushion to disguise any problems in balancing this budget. By the time the council are saying they cannot contain health and social care spending it will be a done deal and the response 'your problem - you managed it ok in the first year.' Interesting that they didn't choose a large Tory-run council to start the ball rolling.

Good point from Dr Mark Porter.
Who is to blame if things go wrong?
There are bound to be lots of staff changes, so lots of people moving sideways or upwords, thus the usual, "so and so is no longer in charge of.."

I am sure if the Labour run Manchester Council did not want to try this they would have told them to bog off. Hardly any love loss between Labour and the Conservatives is there!

Anybody would think there has been no consultation with the Labour Councillors and they have just been told ,'You are having it , now get on with it'. Ridiculous, discussions have been going for ages!

It's another damned if they do, damned if they don't scenario.

There have posters even on here who advocate regional devolution, who say the north get's no look in with the Tories. Then when Cameron and Osborne devolve money and governance to the North then comes the cry ,. 'Yes but they only are doing what we asked for because they expect us to fail and can blame us'.
Can't win.

The 'Northern Powerhouse' has been a project for the government. Had they rolled this out in a Tory area no doubt the media would say it's a sweetener for the Tory voter

This is recognised to be a trial before running it out further , if I have gained any information on this.

I have mentioned the NHS Integrated Personal Commission before on GN and found very little interest but I think there is a good understanding that the future of our care relies more on the joining up of Health and Social Care, which is the fundamental point behind the Manchester concept and the I.P.C (Integrated Personal Commission)

I go in the opposite direction. I wish Manchester well and I hope that they manage to work together well and prove integrating health care and social care is the future. It is being done in some areas but the scale of this project is a massive undertaking but it has to be given a chance.

Manchester Council is one of 10 authorities in Greater Manchester, POGS, so the decision was not theirs alone. The Manchester councillors who opposed the terms of the deal include their treasurer.

'If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got'

Attributed to various people, but it's meaning is clear.

Good luck to those who want to try a new localised approach. I too wish you well Manchester, and if it doesn't work out (though I don't see why it shouldn't succeed) well at least you tried.

When a counci's treasurer is not the same as its officers. The former is a member of the public elected to office, the latter salaried, qualified and exierienced individuals.

There will be Finance Officers in place. After all they have managed huge projects before such as rebuilding much of the city centre after the 1996 bombing.

Great to have north-west control of Integrated Health and Social Care. Not so great to have insufficient budget, based on current population, not projected numbers which are predicted to rise steadily and by tens of thousands by 2017, when the project will have been tried for one year. The budget already has £250 million shortfall.