What is/was your attitude to pensions?

gillybob, I agree. We keep hear about those who save and cannot get benefits and those who spend their money on wine women and song and live off the state in old age. I was a benefit advisor with Age Concern for some years in what until recently was a predominantly rural area and the vast majority of older people I visited who were dependent on state pensions and benefits were in that state because their wages in their working lives had been too meagre to do more than, at best, save enough money for their funerals.

Yes, there were the occasional spendthrifts and those that never thought and planned ahead but mostly it was farm workers and labourers crippled with arthritis in old age because of the hard manual outdoor work they did to earn a low wage and who I felt deserved very benefit they were entitled to.

It really annoys me when I hear people say "we did without......so we could provide ourselves with a pension" did without what? Food, heat,clothes?

I really don't think some people get what it is like for those literally living on the breadline where it's not an option to put aside a few pennies never mind thousands of pounds ( because that's what we are talking). Those stupid adverts on TV make me sick. Do they really expect us to believe that paying a tiny amount each week will result in a comfortable retirement? Don't make me laugh.

I trusted the Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance, as it was then, to provide a pension based on the contributions I and my employer made. I trusted the Australian equivalent when I moved here.

I was happy to be part of this social contract, even though the contributions in the UK and the taxes here in Australia impacted on my income: we still managed to bring up and educate our two sons. I worked full time all my life apart from 8 years of part time work when our sons were little, and enforced early retirement when the company I worked for folded. My husband always worked until ill-health and other circumstances forced him to retire.

We are now retired on the Australian State Pension,with a small amount based on our UK contributions before we came here.

It is adequate: we eat well, pay our bills, and save a little.

The State should continue to take this responsibility. I do not trust private finance.

Like most Gransnetters, I spent a lot of time at home when my children were young but I have always been very independent, I always wanted to return to work and I didnt want to be financially dependent on DH more than was absolutely necessary so in the years I was working between marriage and motherhood and when I was working part time, so excluded from occupational schemes, I always paid the full NI stamp. I never opted for the married woman's rate.

When I was 40 and returning to work full time it was with a large company with a good occupational scheme. Because I was starting paying into a pension scheme relatively late I immediately started paying additional voluntary contributions, the salary hike from a part time job was such that I thought if I did that immediately I wouldnt miss the extra cash. I expected to stay with the company until I retired but when I was in my early 50s it had to drastically reorganise its operations and lose a lot of staff. There was a very good redundancy scheme, which I took, as my future wth the company was uncertain if I decided to stay. As I had a small pension from the time I left I paid voluntary NI payments from the time I left until I hit 60, apart from a short period when I was able to return to work.

Neither my state nor occupational pension is as large as if I had worked until I was 60, but, with Graduated Pension contributions and SERPS my state pension is just above the basic state pension level and my occupational pension gives me a reasonable income and as DH also has his state and occupational pensions between us we are comfortably off.

DS is fortunate to still be in a final salary pension scheme. DD was, but changed jobs and despite me constantly nagging her has made no pension provision for the last 5 years. I am really relieved that the new state scheme is going to force her to put money aside for the future.

could not agree more.

Good for you, Martin, for being so determined. It can be very difficult to take on a government department.

It may be too late for some Gransnetters but do keep your letters in relation to your pension,
Unfortunately I was widowed when I was 29 and my wife was 6 months older.
I was issued a letter saying I would be paid a pension from her occupational scheme from when she would have been 60.
I heard nothing and decided to contact them about 4 months before it was payable.
They replied they had no record of her pension.
I then sent a copy of their letter and I received a reply that as I had got married again no pension was payable.
I had a copy of the scheme rules at the time and it did not say anything about getting re married.
I then complained and they then said that unfortunately the person who signed the letter is now deceased and there was no way they could talk to him about the letter.
I got my solicitor to write a letter threatening legal action if it was not paid.
A week later I got a letter saying there had been an administration error and a pension of £1,500 per year is payable which just about pays my council tax.

Martin

Summed up beautifully Granny23!

From what I gather also the government is also trying to persuade the insurance industry to phase out final salary schemes. These sounded really good on paper when they were first thought up but mean in practice that those at the very top can give themselves enormous salaries in their final years which result in enormous pensions which the schemes simply cannot afford to maintain. A bit difficult to do when all involved in doing it are members of this sort of scheme!

Granny23 could it have been AVCs? They are Additional Voluntary Contributions which some companies allow you to pay in order to increase your eventual pension. Normally the company adds nothing to these even it they add to the normal contributions.

What a good post, Granny 23!

A lot of assumptions are made about pensions based on people's own experience, but here we have around 80 posts which illustrate a range of completely different experiences and outcomes.

For most of us it is a case of swings and roundabouts, win some lose some - but then there are couples like my Dsis + BIL where it is win win (both have index linked civil service pensions) and lose lose for my Best Pal + her DH (neither has works or private pension only state pension + top up). Approaching (early) retirement, my sister was sent on a 3 day 'Preparation for Retirement' course. She then earnestly, tried to lecture us with all the does and don'ts - keep both cars, downsize before you get too old, something about AVGs until I stopped her in her tracks by pointing out that we only had a works van, it would be hard to downsize from a 2 bed cottage and I had no idea what an AVG was. Our friend who can't drive and had a 2 bed ex council house was totally bemused.

My Dsis has learned that she was very fortunate in her choice of career pensionwise and I have found that I am actually better off, moneywise, in retirement than when we were both working! All our retirement plans have been compromised by health problems anyway!

There really is no average pensioner - the powers that be have some job on their hands if they try to equaise without penalising. Meanwhile, we should not collude with 'divide and rule' tactics, which set private sector against public sector and the hardworking against the so called workshy.

Nfk I seem to remember that HW had a pay freeze which resulted in my DH (fiance at the time) being promoted to a much higher position so that they could pay him more! There are always ways to get round these things if the employer wants to.

I think the government is trying to help those in the public sector who are lower paid as they will not have to contribute more to their pensions but the better paid will. I think that in private sector pensions it is usually, or possibly always, based on a percentage of salary so makes no difference if you are at the top or the bottom.

I think the new scheme is to automatically enrol every new employee in the pension scheme unless they choose to opt out so no one wil lbe forced to join if they don't want to. The idea seems to be to change the emphasis.

I think percentages have a lot to do with this widening of the wealth gap. I had a feeling at the back of my mind that Harold Wilson, many, many, moons ago, wanted to make all yearly pay rises under a set amount (£50 comes to mind) rather than a percentage which benefits the better off. I can't remember it happening though. Maybe I dreamt it.

Mmmm, I believe they do!

'We are all in it together' - Bah, Humbug! I think MPs have pretty good pensions.

I suppose what annoys me most is the government's inability to comprehend that a large majority of the working population - the shop assistants, waitresses, carpenters, mechanics, etc, don't get a pension pot at all. And there's no way on earth they could ever save anything into a private pension. They're lucky if they can put enough by for a holiday or newer car. If this new idea of forcing employers to provide a pension goes through, there'll be so many exemptions it'll be unworkable or it'll be a pension such as the one I have from ten years as a receptionist in a housing association - £500 per year. Not to be sneezed at - it is indexed linked!

MY OH's private pensions have had better increases than my public service one this year. He is still on RPI. It really does depend on the pension provider!

May I point out that I have never uttered a word of complaint about my pensions - I am very happy with them. Nor have I suggested anywhere that people in the private sector do not deserve any pension to which they have contributed. I understand entirely why they feel cheated and betrayed - but it is not the fault of public employees.

No, I am certainly not trying to create any conflict. I repeat, I merely posted the true amount and was very surprised to see people reading more into it than I intended. I think I was entitled to express my surprise.
I am very sorry for people who are not going to get a decent pension, whether in the public or the private sector, but poor management in the private sector is not the fault of teachers, etc. and I fail to see why any discussion has arisen in the first place.
I do not grudge anyone anything they can get to which they are legally entitled.

Annobel a point well made about the media setting the private and public sector at loggerheads with each other.

I do take your point AlisonMA . My son is pouring a lot of money into his private pension as he just missed out on a final salary pension when that was closed down. You have the right to be annoyed.

I seem to have got bogged down in a non-productive argument about percentage increase and it must seem that I didn't listen to the point you are making. I'm sorry and I do understand how frustrating it must be to have paid in to such schemes.

The media have not helped the adversarial situation between public and private sector employees by using the lazy generalisation that public sector pensions are 'gold-plated' which is far from the truth for all but the most highly paid civil servants and head teachers. Trouble is that if this is repeated often enough people begin to believe it.

Are you trying to create conflict here Greatnan? As I see it I made a simple comment that the private sector would be delighted with your increase. How can that possible construed as 'constant sniping at teachers'?

"Teachers and other public sector employees are not responsible for the poor situation in the private sector, which seems to generate so much envy and bitterness. We paid our contributions and thought we had entered into a contract with our employers. Are we now supposed to forfeit our pensions out of solidarity with the private sector?"

No of course not, I don't think anyone has said they are but it is difficult to stomach when the public sector complains long and hard about how badly they are treated when they are treated much better than the private sector. Do you really think those in the private sector deserve what has happened to them? They also worked hard and paid into pension schemes which they believed would be worth having but their schemes were changed time and time again. In the private sector a pension is not a contractual right and is entirely separate so there is nothing such people can do if the company pulls back on its promises.

No - I have been living in France since 2002,and before that in Kent, Chelsea, Brussels, Monaco, the Wirral, Surrey, North Wales, and Lancashire, but not Banks. No, I don't take things personally - I am used to most of my posts giving rise to unfavourable comments by certain people, but this time I was surprised because my post was clearly simply factual.

My point being Greatnan that you quoted a figure for an atypical yearly pay rise and I felt obliged to challenge that, especially having had a 0% pension increase just recently. Not to worry, I'm not taking it personally and I hope you don't either.

I had an ex-teacher/retired tax inspector living across the road from me when I lived in a tiny village called Banks. That's not you is it?