English Votes for English Laws

There will be three committees, one English, one English and Welsh, one English, Welsh and Northern Irish. These committees get to decide what the full House gets to vote on.

Such a dog's breakfast!

Exactly, Lilygran. And why are they trying to rush it through before they go on holiday? I read yesterday that the vote on armed forces in Syria will be put off until after the recess. Surely that is more important.

How can the SNP complain they have a parliament that deals with Scottish matters
it is patently wrong that Scottish MPs get to vote on issues that ONLY affect England. Imagine if the situation was reversed - they would be in full uproar. But lets not let facts get in the way of a good rant.
it is not the English Parliament I would prefer but it is a good compromise.
A Scottish MP could become PM - just not vote on those bills deemed to only affect England
I really should leave the N and P threads alone but they rattle my cage

But if England wants to vote on its own laws, why does it not just leave the union?
Why pretend you want to be in the union, then try to split it?
Anyway, why does Grayling need to fast-track this?

Why can it not be debated properly in the Commons, and have a referendum on it?
If a referendum was needed for Scottish devolution, it surely should be needed here too.

"What will it mean for the part-time Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs?

It's hard to see how an MP without an English constituency can ever again become Prime Minister, or indeed hold many of the top ministry jobs. With so many issues devolved they will have only limited involvement in Westminster life, with a consequent reduction in their influence."

From an article in the i.

As I see it [and I am prepared to be corrected]

there is a scottish parliament for scottish stuff already
so rather logical to then follow that with a parliament for the non scottish stuff, since the scottish parliament actually already exists.
One follows the other, scottish one was first.

It's only half a Scottish Parliament. A Scottish Parliament would have been complete devolution, which this government did not want, if you remember, soon. The English parliament still says how much money it is going to give to Scotland, etc.

Not only 'this government'. The Scottish people also rejected complete devolution, durhamjen.

There was a dog's breakfast it's true.

For me it was from the start when 3 out 4 countries that constitute the UK/Union obtained their devolved parliaments and not all 4.

The ' West Lothian' question has been an issue of fairness for donkeys years.

Wasn't it Gerald Kaufman who made the comment in Parliament yesterday that it was 'racist'? . I don't know why then he considers it not 'racist' for the 3 devolved parliaments to vote on their own issues if that is how he determines when it suitable to use the word racist. Added nothing to the debate but 2 mins of fame I guess.

To be honest I think there is a total hypocracy being spoken by those who have their own ability to vote on their own laws, education, health service etc. yet want to refuse the one country that has no right to do the same from having the same powers.

I'll tell you what let's try an experiment. England, Wales, Northern Ireland have devolved parliaments but Scotland can't have one.

It always hits home to me when we have a General Election how the Welsh, Scottish, Northern Ireland Assemblies/Parliaments can continue to function but because we have no English Parliament/Assembly it comes to a halt. How and why is that acceptable? I am not saying that they should also cease to function , I am saying it is yet another reason why the 4th country in the Union should have parity with the other 3.

If only Wales, Northern Ireland and England had devolved parliaments I would be fully behind Scotland in it's quest for it's own devolved parliament, because it would be only fair.

Yes you are right durhamjen. I thought I had forgotten something

So 1/2 a Scottish Parliament.
So Scots will only be in effectively 1/2 the English one.
Still logical?

Depends which half the English one keeps, soon. They want the right to decide taxes for all four.

So did you want Scotland to stay in the union? If so, why?
Why is it alright for England to want to not have a union now?

But presumably because the taxes affects all 4, that does not come under English law?

I think I need to bow out because I really am not up to speed on all of this at all.

What laws can you think of that will only affect England and no other country in the union?

theconversation.com/a-political-party-is-threatening-the-union-and-its-not-the-snp-40507

' What laws can you think of that will only effect England and no there country in the Union'

The same sort of laws as the other devolved countries vote to put in place!

Scotland has different criminal laws for example. It isn't on law making but policy practices that the 3 devolved countries have.

I heard this being discussed by parliamentarians - it is for laws which ONLY affect England and not the other three at all - those laws will still be dealt with by the whole of Parliament and it is intended to redress the situation where English MPs cannot get to vote on things which are devolved to the Assemblies or smaller Parliaments. The fact that everyone could vote for all English laws as well as their own was patently unfair. Why anyone should get their knickers in a twist about it is beyond me. There was a lot of unrest about it after the Scottish referendum and the General Election and a promis was made that a solution would be found quickly. This is a far cheaper solution that having a separate English Parliament - in fact I think the other Parliaments/Assemblies should be manned by MPs sitting in the House of Commons and for a couple of days a week they return to their home country and become the MSP or AM for the same constituency - one whole layer of govt removed with one swipe and the corresponding lowering of the total salary and expenses bills!! That would be the fairest solution of all but I cannot see the NI prime minister, Nicola Sturgeon or Carwyn agreeing to it - and I very much like Carwyn -who was my local AM before we moved.

Yes I want Scotland to stay in the union.
I dont think that Scotland can manage economically on its own. But if Scotland wanted to leave, then that was ok with me.

I am pretty sure that England do want a union. I havent met anyone in rl who said that they dont.

laws just for England. hmm. mayors, transport, policing, borders, english security, fox hunting, farming and fisheries. I can probably think of more.

There has been a lot of resentment about MPs voting on issues that affect England but do not affect their own constituencies. Tony Blair managed to get tuition fees for English universities through Parliament only because Scottish MPs voted in favour. It does seem undemocratic and unfair.

Wales has no say in it's own laws or policing, or border control or Welsh security

Border control for Wales? What do you mean, Anniebach?

Transport just for England? Sorry but that's not possible. Even the dualling of the A1 is contentious. Before the referendum it was going to be dualled all the way up to Edinburgh. Now it's going to stop ten miles short of Berwick. Who pays for roads and railways? National or local? Motorways?

Policing? Do they not have police in Scotland? No cross border? Who pays for them? A criminal commits a crime in England and we have to have Interpol to get him/her out of Scotland?

Fox hunting? Only foxes in England? What happens if a hunt is chasing a fox and it naughtily goes over a border? Do foxes recognise borders?

Farming?
If England decides it wants out of the EU and then gets no farming subsidies, should Scotland suffer as they want to stay in the EU?

Fisheries? Scotland has more fishing rights than England and especially more salmon fishing. Do you want to pay more for Scottish fish because they are not allowed to help in the lawmaking in England?

Ana, Soontobe spoke of policing,borders , security so I just said Wales has no say in these

Absent, at the time, 1998, Scotland charged tuition fees, £3000 over 4 years, so the idea was to bring tuition fees in the rest of the UK in line with Scotland.
People tend to forget that and blame the Scottish MPs for voting for tuition fees in England and Wales. Later Scottish MPs got rid of fees in Scotland. They couldn't in the UK parliament because there were not enough of them.