Embedded License of Domestic Abuse to Women in Religion Through the Eyes of a German Refugee From Yemen

What an admirable young woman Rasha Bamatraf is.

I think it is a story we can all relate to but it does lead me to ask why the hell we have allowed the regime she has fled from taking any foothold in our country. It undoubtedly has and over many years our constant need to show a liberal, politically correct attitude has allowed it to fester to the extent we will possibly struggle to contain it's growth in years to come.

I will no doubt dodge a bullet when I say there is no place for the subjugation of men and especially women in the west but if we are not careful she will one day find herself having to deal with similar problems here in the west.. By that I don't mean the return of medieval torture but the allowance of the rise of Sharia Law usage and the apparent rise in the wearing of the burka in general.

I have spoken of having friends from various religions before but I am fearful of the rise of hard line Muslim rhetoric that we just seem to waffle on about as somebody having a human right/freedom of speech etc. Sorry but I have female , muslim friends who are getting quite upset at what they perceive is a ' potential ' threat to their way of life they have enjoyed, the freedom to integrate and the freedom to dress as they choose. They are not overtly concerned for themselves more for their grandchildren and later generations. It is not the case that any pressure has been applied to them personally but there is an under tone in the community that you can't pin down but you sense it is there. Does that make sense.?

I share your concerns POGS

I think the important thing is that women must have, and know that they have, a choice, whether it be wearing a burka (but not the full face veil at school or in certain places where they need to be identified) or accepting a partner chosen by her family, or whatever. Therefore I don't agree with home teaching or Faith schools for children where they never get to see another point of view. However, I also believe that we have much to learn from other cultures, especially bringing back the concept of personal dignity. I find the way minor so called celebs strip off at the drop of a hat, and the way some young people 'dress' to go out on a Saturday night and so on, very demeaning, and frankly don't blame those from other cultures for wanting to keep their children, especially girls, separate.

POGS. Once again, another good post.
I have been banging on about this for years. In fact, I would go as far to say that in the long distant future we will be a Muslim country.
Many of you will laugh or be angry.
But go back just 30 years, would you have foreseen what is happening now.

I find this article reassuring Especially the bit that says punishments such as stoning, lashes and cutting off of hands will never be acceptable in this country. I believe that is true.

That shouldn't even be discussed as a possibility! Things have already come to a pretty pass if we're having to say 'at least there's no stoning'!

I don't think it has been discussed.

The article says that Sharia law is permitted only for financial dealings, and for divorce. Seems reasonable to me.

Any religion which advocates beating anyone for disobedience is to be abhored. Sharia law is mediaeval and vicious and has no place in a civilised country.

Totally agree with your post POGS. As for your comments starbird you should be ashamed of yourself, do you really think that the way that some women or girls behave is a good reason for the way that they have been treated by men from some muslim countries, for the widespread rape and sexual abuse that happened in Rotherham, Oxford and other cicties? A good reason to keep their wives and daughters in the home/behind the veil?

I think that's a bit extreme Gill. I can see that alcohol has done appalling harm -the disinhibition that leads young girls to put themselves at such risk of sexual crimes and leads our young men into violence is very worrying. You don't have to be a Muslim to have concerns about such behaviour.

Young women are not children and they have to accept responsibility for their behaviour just as young men have to accept responsibility for theirs.

Agreed jane10 and anya. Some people, male and female behave in a disgusting way when drunk, and most accept responsibility for their own foolish actions, but what about those that are young, vulnerable? Getting back to the OP though, I have always thought myself a fair minded person, but recent events to do with the lack of integration of many of the recent, chiefly Muslim immigrants, has made me concerned for the future ahead of my DD and any future grandchildren. I hope I do not come across as bigoted, because I most certainly am not, just fearful like POGS and I do agree with you starbird about faith schools. I have said before that any religious teaching should be outside of school hours, without children mixing we have no chance at all of integration of beliefs and faiths.

"Young women are not children and they have to accept responsibility for their behaviour"

What on earth do you mean by that?!

As far as financial dealings are concerned, isn't Sharia law the only law Muslims can use, as their religion doesn't allow borrowing money as we do (mortgages, loans)?

And how they conduct divorce is their own business, I would have thought.

You mean this sort of divorce, jingl?

"A husband may divorce his wife by repudiating the marriage without giving any reason. Pronouncement of such words which signify his intention to disown the wife is sufficient....... A wife cannot divorce her husband of her own accord. She can divorce the husband only when the husband has delegated such a right to her or under an agreement."

That's from legalserviceindia.com (Divorce under Muslim Law) in case you're wondering.

An unreasonable attack on Starbird for expressing her thoughts. I can certainly empathise with Muslim parents who fear the "freedoms" that UK girls are sometimes given.
And maybe before some of you get even more anti-Islamic please remember that UK Muslim women are not necessarily being beaten and abused by male members of their families any more than non-Muslims. Anyone would think that males in other ethnic groups are blameless in this regard.
And that there are big variations between different groups of Muslims and their customs, just as there are between Catholics, Methodists, Evangelical African Christians and Plymouth Brethren.

It is written,were ever the Muslim settles,he will rule.
For me,the thought of it is,well let's just say,I'm glad I won't be around then.
Genuine people who came here to better their lives,have generally enhanced the country.But the influx of people over the last several years is very wrong for any country.

Yep. That's the one ja.

I don't understand the statement that "women have to accept responsibility for their behaviour". My feeling is men must accept responsibility for their behaviour. It is not illegal to wear a short skirt or get drunk - it is illegal to sexually assault someone.

The Sharia courts are not part of our legal framework. The negotiations and decisions that they arrive at may be in opposition to our own equality laws and unfavourable to women.

There is a similar system with Beth Din, Jewish Courts. Under Jewish law only a husband can grant a divorce (a get). A wife has no such right and may be "chained" indefinitely and unable to re-marry.

In theory, Jewish and Muslim women can refuse to accept the decision of these courts or by-pass them altogether and instead go direct to our own civil courts in order to seek a legal resolution to marital/family issues. However, it is said that some women feel pressured to use these religious courts. I don't think they're a great idea but I'm not quite sure how people can be discouraged from using them.

As to the your comments Marmark, I don't think they constitute reasoned debate and I would call them racist.

The Sharia courts are not part of our legal framework. The negotiations and decisions that they arrive at may be in opposition to our own equality laws and unfavourable to women.

I agree, eloethan, and I think the only way round this is for the decisions of religious courts to have no legal standing at all. There should be one law for all, regardless of religion or lack of it.

Do you know what Eloethan,I couldn't give a s--- what you or a few other people here think of me, because believe me I wouldn't spend the time of day with certain people.As far as being a racist,that's laughable,in fact that's something certain people shout when they're guilty.

Marmight is not being racist. She is saying what is true. There is an element of Islam which believes it should rule wherever it settles. A chilling prospect, and one which must be kept in mind when blanket hospitality is still offered.

A link Hijrah:Migration for the Cause of Allah
"As Islam is the religion of dignity and authority, it was impossible to think of any Muslim submitting himself to the disbelievers; indeed it is forbidden for a Muslim to go to live amongst them and acknowledge their authority over him, because his presence amongst them would make him feel weak and isolated, and, then he would become docile and apologetic before them. He would first be called upon to approve of them, and then to follow them. But Muslims should be filled with morale and confidence, they should be leaders, not followers. They should hold the reins of power; no power should be above them but that of Allah."