The Summer Budget

wait and see

I don't want to Grannyonce although, of course you are not forced to join in this particular thread. These are some of the thoughts the Conservatives seem to have had, I am sure there are others and it will be interesting to see which are chosen.

(I do apologise if your instruction was on behalf of Gransnet itself. It is usually easy to see who they are but perhaps I have missed some change)

Yes it will be interesting, but even more so when we know after the Budget,
So why not wait for it?

It does seem rather pointless to speculate, although some do enjoy getting hot under the collar about what 'might' happen...

gg that was a very rude response and quite uncalled for
in a week's time we will know - so wait and see otherwise it is scaremongering and unhelpful.
I am leaving gransnet and this thread for now -I have more important things in my life to deal with.

Oh dear, another bad tempered thread in the making! The comment to grannyonce's innocuous remark was both rude and quite uncalled for. I won't be joining in this thread either as it doesn't bode well for thoughtful conversation with differing opinions, and if it means being rudely shouted down, then I just can't be bothered.

As far as I am aware this forum caters for all the interests “Grans” may have. I am not interested in photography for example but would not go onto a thread on that subject and tell them I feel the time is inappropriate for their discussion. Why would you feel you can offer instructions other than to be rude? Why not just leave the thread to those who may be interested – if nobody is it will just fall by the wayside.

I agree, neither would I go into a thread that didn't interest me. The trouble with this particular thread is that a lot of people, myself included, are interested in the subject, but unless they are of a particular political persuasion risk being being shouted down, ridiculed or generally made to feel that at best they're stupid and ill informed or at worse uncaring, self centered and bordering on a Nazi. You have to be a strong minded person to withstand that sort of bombardment which can be off putting to say the least.

Have benefits changed in recent years in relation to disability payments ?
In about 2001 I had to give up my job and went to work in a care home for MIND. One of our 'service users' (the terminology at that time) had accrued so much money (through benefits) that he was able to take a trip to China with 2 care workers. He paid for the care workers.
I know some of you will say, well why shouldn't he be able to go to China if he wants. But I hope that some of you will agree that it wasn't right that the money just kept poring into his bank a/c.

I am interested in discussing/speculating about the forthcoming summer budget and I think that gracesgran is quite entitled to start a thread on it if she so wishes, likewise those who are not interested need not contribute, there really is no need for the grumpy and bad tempered comments. For what it is worth, I am intrigued by just where these cuts are going to be made, and assume that there was a good reason for non-disclosure pre election day. I also expect there to be a lot of smoke and mirrors and it will take a while to work out the implications. One of my guesses is that tax relief on mortgage interest payments for buy to let properties will be abolished, this is a revenue raiser rather than spending cut of course. Think child benefit will be limited to first two children and that all benefits whether for disability/children or other will be taxed as income. Bedroom tax will stay., would like to see Barnet Formula reduced. Will be interesting to hear it being hailed as for our own good (this is a non-political statement)

Of course gracesgran is entitled to start a thread on any subject she likes as is anyone else. What I objected to was the rude dismissal of the comment made grannyonce which was perfectly valid and didn't warrant that sort of reply anymore than do remarks made by others. The comments about Gransnet I have to admit I was at a loss to understand, but may be it's something I'm not familiar with.

Nigglynellie I was not rude. Let me try another simile for you. I do not like or take any interest in sport. I imagine that before the Olympics people were thinking about how different sports people would perform and perhaps how GB would do overall. If someone had started a thread and I went on an made the very first comment abruptly and officiously instructing the OP to "wait and see" I think it would be perfectly reasonable for the OP to think me rude and, shall we say, someone who thinks they can instruct others on what threads they may or may not start. Grannyonce's was a rude comment in the first place. If then a couple or three other people piled in and said "yes, I think you should wait until it happens" anyone would wonder why they had bothered to go on the thread. It is only on the political threads that someone would go on to say "I'm not interested so I won't be joining in" on any other subject they would just pass by that thread so I can only assume that some effort to disrupt a discussion was going on. I may be wrong; we all can be but it seems very odd to me.

I shall now carry on with the discussion with those who chose to have it.

Petra personally I think some of the suggestions will be perfectly valid and others we might question. I have also seen people on good incomes getting so much in disability payments that they don't know what to do with it. I just hope they are careful about how they do this as someone who is only just into the tax system and is paying for a lot of their own care might find themselves in difficulties but, overall, I do think that is one that might be fair.

My mother is just into the tax system but, because mental problems (Alzheimer's) are dealt with differently to physical ones we have to pay for the carers to go in to give her her medication. If she had a physical problem apparently they could give her the medication at the same time as they dealt with that. I have a feeling that, if her Attendance Allowance becomes taxable she may lose her little bit of Pension Savings Credit too as the amount will add to her income. I wonder how many "knock-ons" there will be with this. The system does need sorting out; they have certainly got that right but I do hope we don't go from perhaps giving too much to some who don't need it to giving too little to many who do.

Where is DJen when you need her GG?

GillT57 I agree about the smoke and mirrors. I just have a feeling that, like lines of dominoes falling, we may see more effects as the months roll on.

I think that they will bring in any changes for the number of children as of the new budget so that anyone claiming for over the level will still get that but with it reducing as each child leaves the system. This means it could take a while to get any gain from the change.

Without the LDs I agree bedroom tax will stay and, as I said, there is some chatter about the Tories increasing the bedroom tax on certain categories of renters although I haven't seen any figures.

Ah ... the Barnett Formula. I just wish I understood it and more to the point, I wish I felt they (all the "theys") did .

Djen has been teaching her grandson all day, roses. Thanks for thinking of me.

Petra, disability benefits are changing, and not for the better. I see no reason why someone who is disabled and needed two carers should not have been able to save his DLA to go on the trip of a lifetime.
How many other trips did this man go on?
The independent living allowance has been scrapped, and the money lumped in with the money given to councils, but not ringfenced. That means that those with the greatest needs might get less, but of course the councils can now be blamed.

What I find interesting is that Tory MPs are asking Cameron to review the bedroom tax, as they said it was hugely unpopular on the doorstep. Didn't stop people voting for it, did it? They think that was the reason Esther McVey lost her seat.

The article was in the i on 25th June, but google will not let me show it.

I'm sorry Jen but I don't agree that someone should be able to have enough to go on a trip to China from benefits, if that was the source of the money for the trip. That is not what I would be fighting for. There are many who don't have enough basic care, surely that should take priority. My worry would be that both may lose out.

I agree that the idea of the bedroom tax was unpopular but I wonder what percentage of the population were actually affected by it. Sadly many voters, although some would be sympathetic, would not have it as a priority.

Which of the other suggestions do you think are likely?

So disabled people aren't allowed to have bucketlists, like everyone else?
Being disabled is enough of a problem without being told that if you can save for a holiday, you shouldn't be getting as much. How much does a holiday in China cost, anyway?

theconversation.com/fact-check-who-has-been-hit-hardest-by-the-bedroom-tax-39414

A fact check on the bedroom tax before the election. They cannot extend the bedroom tax because there is nowhere for anyone else to move to. I'd like to see that programme by Ken Loach where he interviewed people who had lived in their homes for 40-50 years, and were in tears at having to move out because they could not afford the bedroom tax.

I actually do not want Osborne to do any in the list. I want him to tax the rich properly so the poor do not suffer any more. I want him to put the minimum wage up to the living wage. No harm in dreaming, is there?

I am confused Durhamjen by your post.

You are a prolific poster who post after post, link after link points to the austerity measures causing the disabled to become poverty stricken, cannot clothe, feed or heat their homes.

Yet now you accept it is possible to save enough money whilst on Disability and other benefits no doubt, to save enough for a holiday to China with 2 carers, which will cost thousands. There was no mention this was a 'bucket list' of a terminally Ill patient or did I miss that.

I have absolutely no doubt some people on benefits live hand to mouth but this scenario does show that the benefit system is not necessarily causing hardship to all, as link after link states. Perhaps it would be a good thing to reevaluate the payments so that those who don't even have a cat in hells chance of paying for a weeks stay in a caravan get higher benefit payments, which is what the benefit system is surely for.

I might sound hard but there is an irony in one minute saying the government/austerity has impoverished the disabled but in the next breath accepts it is possible to save thousands for a holiday .

That was in 2001, fourteen years ago. Before this government/ austerity came in. This government/austerity has impoverished the disabled and is continuing to do so. I doubt whether anyone now could do it.
All disabled people have to wear sackcloth and ashes, do they, just to show they are not getting too much from the system?

You do not have to be terminally ill to have a bucket list, do you? I have two life limiting illnesses. Wish I could afford a bucket list, but I do not begrudge others.

cpag.bsd.net/page/m/49bd89ef/5ed88827/76b3f5b1/30ed16af/4170866568/VEsE/

If you do not want child tax credits cut contact your MP. This is being organised by Child Poverty Action Group.

Jen there really is no point in getting cross with those who are, in a general way, in agreement with you.

The question, originally, was about the taxing of disability benefits. Generally I can see this makes some sense but I would be concerned about those who only just fall into the tax system or do so because of a small amount of benefit. I think that actually means I feel the point at which the personal tax allowance starts is too low. The government seem to think this too so I will watch to see how quickly they put it up. Sadly, I don't trust them to do this without the LDs there to twist there arms (metaphorically).

I think it is a bit naïve to wish for holidays out of benefits. I would like everyone to live in wonderful housing, have a good income and yes, go on holidays to places like China but there is a limited tax pot. Yes we should make it bigger by making sure all that should pay their share and yes we must support those in need, not just with money but by respecting them but while those currently paying into the pot cannot always afford suitable housing or holidays I do think we have to realise that will not be popular.

I think we need to ensure that everyone with a disability has their needs met. At the moment two people can receive the same amount which may be more than enough for one persons needs and nowhere near enough for another's.

I think by "extending" the bedroom tax they mean charging more in some areas Jen. I don't like the sound of that if people have no where to move to but I don't really know enough about what they are suggesting at the moment.

Apparently Cameron calls the leaking of these ideas "rolling the pitch", i.e., preparing the ground to see how it is received

Well, Jen here is a ten-day "Taste of China" holiday from Virgin www.virginholidays.co.uk/destinations/asia-&-far-east/tours/guided-tours/a-taste-of-china

£1,599 each. With two carers that is £4,797, plus spending money.