Transgender women and GN

I don't think we should mock anyone. I think the expression 'walk a mile in someone else's shoes' is a good way to think.

I think what rankles is that people start these threads disingenuinly - even dishonestly. If someone came onto GN wanting to canvas opinion about Transgender issues I am sure it would be treated with respect and intelligence. Its all the subterfuge that's annoying.

What's brought this on, granjura? The only reason a sex change was mentioned, jokingly, in the Language thread was because the OP referred to absent as 'he'.

Admit to being totally confused by this thread until your post Ana

Of for goodness sake! If this thread is referring back to the throwaway comment in the other thread then please get a sense of humour!

I do think, or hope, that the current thread is a genuine question about our thoughts on trans gender issues probably 'inspired' by the language thread but not criticising the jokey comment.

If so I wholeheartedly agree that nobody should ever criticise or offend a trans gender person. If they suspect they are cross gender then accept them for that without morbid curiosity and just engage with them naturally. Their gender make up was formed soon after conception and they have no control over it. Brave are the ones who take the plunge and try to fit in with the sex they feel they belong to. I've met several people, mainly male to female and to me they are just people. Unbelievable that you should have heard someone being called a pervert granjura. How ignorant.

Who on earth is talking about transgender issues? We all know absent is not cross-gender so this is a total non sequitur.
However if anybody genuinely wants to discuss issues raised by transgender/cross gender experience, I would be interested to read your comments.

I dislike people being disingenuous, but dislike mocking even more. If a thread looks dodgy, then either report or leave to go cold.

What a pity about your trans-gender acquaintance, gj. Even more so regarding your English friends.

Now I'm even more confused ..... by ffinn's first sentence.

I didn't see any mocking going on....of anyone...

I only read the thread quickly this morning, and got the wrong end of the stick- and I am sorry. I realise only now that the 'joke' was about the person thinking absent is a 'he' - which I didn't pick up in the langs thread.
I suppose what happened to my friend being called a 'pervert' by one of my guests- made me a tad more sensitive to this.

But the discussion is still interesting, so let's keep the discussion going.
I truly do not get 'transgender' as I was born female and always knew and felt female- but having witnessed the pain and suffering of two people close to me made me think.

I have another friend from when I was a teenager I've met again recently. S/he told me he has always known he was crossgender- but never dared come out until his parents died, in his/her early 60s (he also had to take over his father's firm, which he truly hated- he was a very talented film maker/cameraman). He then had a massive breakdown and it all came out- but too late to do anything about it due to age. Not sure how s/he dresses when going out, or at home- but when s/he came to visit, s/he was wearing a nicely tailored trouser suit and fine, but 'men' shoes, with a large but 'discreet' handbag, and hair tied back with light lipstick. My heart was in my mouth as we saw him get in the train to go home, as there were a few big lads getting on too, and I wondered if s/he would get trouble/bullied- but apparently all was fine. So sad s/he never dared leave home and live the life h/se wanted- nowadays I suppose s/he would. He will be 70 next year.

I think she would probably prefer to be referred to as she/ her gj

I have never had a problem with people who feel they were born in the wrong body. Just as I have never had a problem with anyone who is gay. We are who we are, and should be accepted as such. Why would I, or anyone, disparage someone just because they are different to me. I have white skin, should I therefore have a problem with someone who has black or brown skin - of course not. Its the same with someone who is cross gender. If we all accepted each other as we are then there would be a lot less strife in this world.

This gives an insight. She used to run a pub not far from us and in Real Life she's a stunner!

Oops! Here's the link:

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2428114/Sex-change-model-Nicole-Gibson-storms-London-Fashion-Week--makes-mother-proud.html

bellanonna- both friends who have had the op and now live 100% as women I would call 'she/her' - especially the older one as I never new her as a man. But in the case of the other friend- s/he is still a man, physically and officially, and does not live his/her life as a woman, in many ways- hence the s/he- which is what s/he is - even if his/her heart and soul tells her s/he should have been a woman. I still call her my her male name, and not by her woman name she adopts with some people in some situations. Didn't ask him/her about cross dressing, going out to clubs, etc- as it is none of my business and didn't want to be a 'voyeuse'.

So he's a he then, gj ?

How a person identifies themselves with regards to a) sexuality and b) gender is for the individual to state. It is who they are. Ones gender and sexual orientation is not a choice but a fact of being!

It must be very hard for families and close friends to adjust to having a child, thought to be of one gender and then discovering they are in fact the opposite gender. It must be hugely difficult for the individual too. I cannot imagine what the emotional pain might be.

absent? Cross gender?! Flip me! That's a new one!

T'other thread's not been deleted either........ Doubly now....

Oh heck!! I've just come on to this thread and can't believe what I'm reading.

It was a JOKE!!

When somebody said the thread was going to be deleted I was about to post, 'Don't do it until absent wakes up or we'll never know the truth!' Then the phone went so I didn't.

Saved by the bell.

I think there is a world of difference between making a joke about someone having a "Sex change" because a poster got a pronoun wrong and mocking someone who is transgender, which is completely unacceptable. As far as GN goes, sometimes it is easy to tell what gender the person who is posting is and sometimes it isn't, so knowing if someone is transgender is virtually impossible. And anyway I can't see that it matters. Interesting and amusing points of view are what we need never mind who is posting them,

Yes Merlot, I got it wrong as I quickly scanned the thread, acknowledged it, apologised even. OK.

Whatever has been going on?

Transgender is such a stupid word. Gender is a linguistic concept; sex is a biological concept.

Having got that off my chest, I would add that I cannot imagine how awful it must be to be trapped in what feels like the body of the wrong sex. It must be a huge step to undertake the surgery and hormone therapy required to make the body match the person inside and applaud the courage of anyone who has done so.

Finally, I have never seen anyone on Gransnet mock someone who has undergone this transformation and hope I never do.

See what you mean - so what word would you use? Woman or man as soon as process is over (the interim period is quite long) as if nothing has happened in the past? (why not... just discussing).