"It's the Thing that counts..."

Well all I can say is hear hear.

Cumberbatch was making an important and supportive point and got shat on from a great height by the word police - what nonsense that is!

I agree Mishap , he couldn't insult anyone if he tried, he's so lovely.

I have no idea how lovely Mr Cumberbatch may be –and I fully appreciate what he was saying – but I do think it is important to watch the words and general language we use. At the same time, I agree that piddling around with words and descriptions often turns out to be the rearranging deck chairs (or polishing fish knives) on the Titanic syndrome. I recall a friend's child who was born seriously brain damaged – a severe physical injury – being re-labelled "a child with learning difficulties". By making his problem sound far less serious, the powers-that-be then assumed that they were far less serious, clumping him into a nice big general category.

Cumberbatch's gaffe was hardly a hanging offence but as we know skin colour is a particularly sensitive issue in the US.

I am surprised though that a young man of his age has such a phrase as coloured people in his vocabulary - my sons are in their 30s and I've never heard them use it.

It tends to be used by much older people who say it in a kindly way, but not realising that times have changed.

I'm surprised by that too Riverwalk - it's the sort of word that would be used by someone who didn't know better, but was trying to be PC in their own way. I've corrected several people of my own generation who were surprised to be told it wasn't the correct term. Some didn't believe me!

I totally aquit Comberbatch of whatever allegations are being levied against him, except the one of naivity.

What makes the reaction to the Cumberbatch gaffe so risible is that the term he used -'coloured people' - is merely a re-arranged version of the words the now-correct term 'people of colour', which appears to have superceded the obviously outmoded 'Blacks' or 'African-American'.
So he is guilty not of insulting people of colour, but of failing to keep up with the changes in language dictated by an assumption that making certain words proscribed will get rid of deep-seated societal problems.
It won't - as the need to periodically revise the acceptable term shows.

Is that right Janea ...I'd better tell my 'black' friends they're not 'black' anymore ..what about my Asian friends? Are they included in this 'people of colour' or not?

wanders off to pour a strong shot of caffeine

As the article says, words go in and out of favour. I got hauled over the coals many years ago as a hospital social worker because I used the word coloured in a lecture. A black nurse took exception to it. I used it to mean a mixed race baby - we were discussing adoption. But no-one was looking at the real meaning of what I was saying.

To object to someone saying coloured instead of people of colour is perfectly ridiculous, and discourages anyone from saying anything about anyone whose skin is not white as the driven snow for fear of giving offence - how daft is that?

Apparently Dr Martin Luther King Jr used the phrase “citizens of colour” in his “I Have a Dream” speech. I think it sounds a lot more respectful than "coloured people".

Makes you wonder how the conversation in Benedict Cumberbatch's posh well-to-do family used to go.

One son-in-law has had a leg/back problem since childhood, and limps noticeably. He lives with it, and is matter-of-fact about the condition, but some others have difficulty mentioning it in his presence.

He was most amused to be asked by a forthright old lady "And have you always been a cripple?"

Just mentioning the differences between people shouldn't be the minefield it is. Being nasty about them - yes. But it is the attitude to the person/colour/condition that is insulting, not the actual words used - they change so often we can't keep up.

I had a discussion with a black friend along these lines some time ago. I said that I would never use the "n" word to describe him yet I often heard him and his friends using the word to each other. His reply was that it was the intention behind the word that could offend, not the word itself, if I were to use the "n" word to him he would not be offended because he knew I meant no disrespect but if a stranger in the street shouted the word to him he would be offended. He also thought that some people seemed to seek to be offended - his words were "some people will walk a mile over broken glass in their bare feet to have their feelings hurt" (no I could never bring myself to use that word!!)

Well if an old lady asked me if I'd always been a cripple I'd ask her if she'd always been a rude, thoughtless nosey old bat

And the words don't change so often - any thinking, well informed person can easily keep up

You miss my point, Grannytwice

He is happy for anyone to know that he has always had these problems - they could hardly avoid knowing he has them now, as he staggers around the place.

He had a bad time at school, but now he makes use of it by being on the accessibility advisory group at work, and getting things improved for others, physical access improvements, tolerance for mental/ psychological illness and so on. He is positive about it. He jokes about how difficult it is to carry two full glasses from the bar to the table.

Being offended that anyone should mention his disability would not help anyone. A term which was the common one when she was young was not an insult, it was a genuine enquiry into how long he had had it, using a word which described the condition clearly to her, and was not intended to put down the hearer.

It was treating him as a sensible human being who could talk for himself, not a victim to be pitied,or whose obvious disability must be ignored.

Why feel insulted when no insult is intended?.

So can the peely-wally ones among us be referred to as "the persons lacking colour", please, just to make things fair and equal y'know.

What a minefield of claptrap it all is!

If anyone prefers one of these words to claptrap, I will not be offended if you insert them in place of it: bilge, tripe, poppycock, hogwash, shite, bollocks, rubbish, nonsense, outright silliness.

That'll do for starters. Other suggestions welcome.

You forgot codswallop, bags

I do like sunseeker's black friend's comment - "some people will walk a mile over broken glass in their bare feet to have their feelings hurt"

We've all met 'em.

As a pretty well-educated individual I do struggle to keep up Grannytwice.
Who the heck spends their time thinking up these 'changes', and then imposes them on everyone else?
So long as a word is not used as an insult, as sunseeker says, then why change?
A friend of mine from Trinidad says the world's gone bonkers, there are far, far more serious issues needing solutions.

It's all rubbish. Coloured man, man of colour - what's the difference? I thought it was PC to refer to 'black man' currently? Anyone can call me a 'white woman' if they wish. Why would I care, even though I'm actually more pink than white?

I thought too that 'black' was PC, as was 'coloured', clearly not!

By the way are all questions requesting ethnic origin going to be changed?
They clearly state ' black' when filling in recruitment paperwork!

Can someone give us a ruling on this? I'm terrified to open my mouth in front of a black/coloured/ethnic person of colour now, except I guess most of them would laugh at me whichever I chose to use - we are all just 'people' aren't we? Yeah, let's stick to that.

Incidentally,should firms be asking for ethnic background any more? (see loopylou's post above). I know they do, but I'm surprised it has not become illegal.

I read a comment on another forum last night to the effect that 'person of colour' is more respectful than 'coloured person' because it puts the person before the colour in the same way that Downs children are now referred to as 'children with Downs Syndrome' which puts the child before the syndrome.

I wish I could figure out why it is okay to describe someone as white but not black.

An excellent article.

My sister who lived in London was horrified when I used 'coloured' a few years ago. She accused me of being ignorant. I was. Most of us are. we don't keep up with the latest slang and latest terms for ANYTHING let alone what to call 'people of colour' (apparently the latest term, but she prefers black, so is she now ignorant?).

I was asked how to identify a friend of my son's to a local lately. I really had to think hard. Could I say 'curly black hair'? Or 'big brown eyes'? In the end, I settled for 'Really good-looking, with the most beautiful skin the colour of milk chocolate'.

To which she replied 'Oh, he's coloured then?'.