If you could start from scratch, what philosophical principles would you want to underpin our taxation system?

Gordon Bennett! Haven't we been here and done this?

Actually, I wouldn't let philosophy have a look-in. Economics is what is needed.

Let people choose their own philosophy in life.

Thank you JBF for that helpful thoughtful contribution - I'll wait to see if a grown up wants to play

Righto then.

Have you been away jings?

Fairness, in tax and wages, for all who use any services in this country.

A living wage so that all are able to pay basic tax and therefore see they have an investment in society.

Yes I have Mishap. Had a few days in Rome. Very nice too.

'In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes'.

When you have died you can't argue so we can tax you at 40%

Is that fair?

No, I think that's the unfairest of all taxes.

But what seems fair to one person does not to another, it seems.

I'm with Durhamjen! Problem solved.......

If it was at say 35%, I wonder whether some of them would not shout quite so loud about those who dont pay any income tax?

From each according to his/her ability; to each according to his/her needs. Which apparently makes me a Marxist! I still think it's an excellent principle, but has it ever been made to work satisfactorily?

Yes, that would work, provided there was no unemployment, sickness, disability etc...

(to Jomarie)

It covers unemployment, sickness and disability. What do you think needs are?

A living wage would be great.
I dont see why that is unachievable for any of the political parties.
[I wouldnt care if that made some companies stop trading in the UK]. Having now written that, I suppose I might?

People who are sick, disabled or unemployed could still have a living wage, i.e. enough to live on.
It's the Schumacher principle of sharing work and responsibility.

Sounds like a Green Party manifesto promise to me!

jen Schumacher there is a blast from the past!!

Ah well - I suppose we haven't really moved on much have we? - a snail's progress at best. The philosophical approach probably is just that "ah well - que sera sera"....... Am opting out of this thread now!

Yes, whitewave. Even more relevant now, I think. It's called Practical Action now, but still run from the Schumacher Institute.

That's the problem, Jomarie. Most people are not prepared to look at the taxation system as a whole, just how it suits themselves and their families.

Same with any other system, really. I do not believe we all have a selfish gene. I think people can cooperate, particularly in wages and taxes.
Unfortunately, Thatcher's idea of there being no such thing as society is becoming even more obvious these days.

I'm still with you Durhamjen. Unfortunately I have a very cynical element to my personality now, probably derived from being a daughter of a staunch conservative mother and a labourite father. I chose liberal - Jeremy was my hero back in the day. No more from me, I promise........

Unfairness creeps in when taxation is not used simply to raise money to provide services and benefits for all members of society, but is used as an incentive to make people, or some people, behave in a certain way.

To give a simple example, a tax allowance or rebate may be given to new start up businesses, because the government wants more people to start up new businesses.

But the tax allowance may be seen by existing businesses to be unfair because they are having to pay higher taxes than the new business.

The perception of unfairness leads to perverse incentives and efforts to avoid paying tax.

So perhaps a starting point could be to stop using taxes to change people's behaviour, and concentrate on the primary function of raising money.