The Louise Mensch story today highlights for me, yet again, the dilemma of
of young talented, highly qualified career women trying to be be devoted wives and mothers. It is not rocket science. Surely you need to decide either/or...though many appear to succeed on the surface. Unless you throw money at the 'problem', pay others to look after your children at home or boarding school - then don't have a family. Someone will always suffer. Marriages, relationships will break down. Of course, try not to fall in love with someone who lives in another country - and avoid becoming an MP.

I must admit that my first thought on hearing about her resignation was, "I wonder how long that marriage will survive?"

My daughter is a high-flyer, got a great job with a large firm after her Degree, rose up the ranks and is now the partner of an excellent firm, with a large team under her management. It's tough - tough on her mainly, but she just loves her job and feels that we will never get good women at the top if they just 'give up' all the hard work. And she has our full support and admiration.

They employ a Nanny full-time, and at the start, it cost her a huge proportion of her salary (same pay as a primary school teacher+ social payments, pensions, and a car). Mum, dad and nanny work as a brilliant team- and I can truly say the kids do not suffer at all. For them it is the norm- and they have fantastic week-ends and holidays together. It takes a lot of organisation and team-work, cooperation and so much more. And of course there are failures on the way... perhaps as many, as failures in those relationships where Mum's brain, imagination and talent is nurtured then wasted. Not easy, yes I know - but it can be done. My daughter would go spare as a full-time mum, and frustrated working at a part-time job where she could not use her brain to the full. Good on her and all like her. It is not that they are ambitious, hard and not good mums- not at all.

In Louise's case, it is not being an MP (although hours are horrendous)- but the fact her husband is in the USA - and they have to live apart. A totally different kettle of fish, surely.

I echo all of this with my daughter, granjura. Her girls (now nine and six) went to nursery full-time, made a smooth transition to school and you couldn't wish for a happier pair of children. They have a very tight routine of one partner leaving at the crack of dawn for London and the other taking the children to breakfast club, then the one who starts work before eight, leaves to pick the girls up from the childminder, while the other stays late in London. They are a strong family unit and although they get tired, they cope. My daughter and her husband both enjoy their jobs (as we did) and maybe this is one of the important factors in making it work.

And doesn't Louise have another very successful career as a novelist?

Yes, I agree, reading between the lines, there are obviously other pressures which we don't know about. I am sure this is not a decision she has taken lightly. I was always impressed with her style and political stance. She has become a media darling really plus her writing ability - such alot going for her - no doubt she will be snapped in in the US media - do hope she will be happy and the children will thrive. Our loss.

She certainly came across as intelligent, which is more than a lot of our MPs do! Yes, she writes under her maiden name of Louise Bagshot, I think.

Its Bagshaw nag

Bagshawe with an e - just Googled it!

I suppose it depends how one defines 'all'

Yes indeed - and one woman's 'all' may be another's 'not enough'.

And I worry that if someone is having it all, someone else isn't getting their fair share.

My thoughts too, kitty I think it was Nicola Horlick who said you can have any 2 out of the 3 of children/career/relationship. That is not to decry those who manage but at a price - it may be the price of seeing a child take his/her first steps, of missing a parents' evening or a Nativity Play. The child is rarely the loser - it's more likely to be Mum.The price might also be not getting your job back after maternity leave or only at a lower level (it happens) or both parents cracking under the physical strain.
I think Allison Pearson's book is a stab at depicting the scenario, but most working mums would say it is far, far worse.
Another thought is for the working mum whose salary is an economic necessity, not where it can fund nannies or full time nursery.

It sounds as if the answer is 'just about', with much juggling, planning, determination, energy reserves - and commitment to the cause!

Mamie - yes my daughter and OH do the same. Take it in turn to leave early and get back late. And it works very well - although it takes a lot of organising, compromising, and more. Why should the mother always be the one to drop their career (well most of the time. Easy enough to be the other way round if the father does not have a career, or is happy to drop it). Not easy either to go back to the same level after maternity leave. My daughter dropped a couple of places, but very soon 'caught up' and became a partner of her firm. Had she stayed at home for 5 years or more, she would have had NO chance at all to get back in ever, possibly, as the world she works in moves so fast.

Kittylester- yes I can see what you mean. But few people have the training, experience and the ability to do what she does. It is not as if, if she had dropped out, somebody could have just walked into her shoes.

For instance it takes a huge amount to train a Doctor. So many of the women then become GPs, and then give up or work a few hours a week or part-time- a huge waste of resources and training, and a huge loss for the NHS and us..
Same for nurses, dentists, teachers, etc, etc.

My daughter giving up her job would not have given an un-employed person a job, I am pretty sure. And she does employ a full-time properly trained NNEB nanny (at huge cost), and a cleaner + washing/ironing service, so her working does provide employment for others.

I decided in 1982 when pregnant with my first child that I couldn't have it all. It was the early days of women demanding that they should be able to have it all on equal terms with men (not that I think men have ever had it all, but that's with the benefit of 30 extra years of experience behind me). I was the first married woman in my workplace to return to work after having a baby, and the first person to apply to jobshare - a revolutionary new idea. I was very lucky to have my mum nearby, newly widowed and more than happy to support us with child care. Even so, I did not want to miss out on the precious years with my children and I worked part time until they were in their teens. I gave up all thoughts of promotion on the grounds that I would be doing half a job and not giving it my full attention as my focus was elsewhere. Others at the time did it differently but I don't regret my choice for a minute.

So no, I still don't think it's possible to have it all. I take my hat off to working parents like granjura's and Mamie's daughters and I agree with gracesmum that it is not usually the children that are the losers but more often the mum. I just wasn't willing to miss out to that extent.

Job sharing can be a brilliant option. In my school, one of the teachers told the Head very early in her pregnancy that she wanted to come back on a job share, and his reply was an emphatic NO WAY! She could have fought it with the help of the Union and possible the Board of Governors- but she was so gutted by his response that she just gave up. A loss to the school as she found a job share in another school when baby was 6 months.

In my daughter's case, it just wouldn't have been an option. You can't be at the top of the game, managing huge projects with a team of people, and be part-time. So it was all or nothing for her- as she would have just hated not being involved in the decision making and management. It was HER choice, with OH, and I shall support them all the way- even though I do get concerned that she has so little or no 'ME' time, as she gives her all to her children and OH when she is not working.

We do not live locally, so can't support on a daily basis, but she knows that if she phones at 3 in the morning in an emergency, I'd be on the next plane over, and that when they are a bit older, they will be welcome to spend a lot of time here during holidays.

I once did that "mercy dash" 75 miles up the motorway to Birmingham when littlest fella was poorly at nursery and they couldn't reach DD or SIL (In London and Manchester respectively and incommunicado) leaving DH to keep trying DD so that she could arrange an appointment with GP for us and also to give permission to nursery to give LF Calpol. It turned out OK and SIL made it home in time for the GP appointment, but it was a wake-up call to both of them and just fortuitous that I was at home, mobile on and not halfway round a supermarket.
Plans B, C and D sometimes necessary.
I have my own horror story of the time I thought a neighbour was taking littlest DD aged 5 to school one Monday morning (middle D responsible for seeing her round to next door before catching her own school bus) as I left home early to get to my school in the next county, and neighbour had forgotten to tell me she was away for the weekend. DD was found wandering round the village green in tears as she "knew" she wasn't old enough to go to school by herself, "found" by a friend who was also local practice nurse and in uniform out walking her Rottweiler. DD didn't know the friend but recognised the dog! I got into such trouble from the school Head and had many a sleepless night as I realised the potential implications.

I disagree that it is a waste to train women (or men, for that matter) for professional jobs which they then do part-time so that they can raise their children themselves. Raising children is an important job that is also valuable to society at large when it is done well. I'm not advocating this for everyone, but I don't like to hear it decried or for people to say, ever, that higher education is a "waste". That is rot. Education is never wasted.

Well said Bags

Sorry Bags, I didn't mean a 'waste' in this sense, nor that the job of mother is not as important. However, the NHS trains Doctors at huge cost- and all those trained count towards the number required for the NHS to run properly. if a large number then gives up work altogether - it leaves the NHS short, especially at a time when a huge number is coming up to retirement. of course education is never wasted- but if professionals trained at huge cost do not then practice said profession - it does leave the system short.

In the Asian community for instance, a large number train as doctors, opticians, dentists, etc - in order to secure a 'higher' marriage, but with no intention of ever working. And please, this is not a racist statement, but the reality.

Yes, I do the "mercy dash" across the channel too, granjura!
I think I can say (and I don't want to sound smug because I'm not) that I had it "all" - career, children, relationship. I loved my career as teacher, adviser and school inspector (most of the time), we are still happily married after 43 years and our children are also in happy marriages, with good careers and lovely children. If I "missed out" I am not sure what it was I missed.

I admire people who can do a demanding job as well as juggling family concerns, but I'm not that high-powered. I'm not ashamed to say that. Besides, I enjoyed being a full-time mum, in spite of (or perhaps because of) my tertiary education. Each to their own. We can't all be the same. There simply is not one right way to do things.