Living with other people's mess (long)

it's make your mind up time, isn't it? Do you want a divorce? If yes, how practically feasible is it. No, actually! Scrap that. If yes, make an appointment with a reliable firm of solicitors and ask to see the one who specialises in divorce. Get things moving. A journey must have a beginning.

However, if the answer is no, then you need a firm strategy, and stick with it. Go into the slobby daughter's room. Have a massive clear up. Leave it looking really nice. Then tell her categorically she must keep it that way - or leave. You would probably be better off without her. If he enters into the argument, ignore him. Do not get into a row. Just keep talking to your daughter only about it. If she doesn't toe the line, pack her bags and put them in the garden when she is out. She has to get the message.

Throw away anything chipped, broken, or in any way spoilt around your house. You don't need to live with crap. Go and buy new. Surely you know how to spend the bugger's money, don't you?

Do not get angry. Do not row with them. Just be quietly firm. When you are sick of them, escape to Gransnet or a book.

Overall, to be honest, I think I advocate option 1. At the very least it may convince them that you have had enough.

Be strong.

Thank you jinglbellsfrocks. I think you're probably right. Will it change after all these years? Unlikely. I just feel so bloody upset.

My daughter was like that [she's now very houseproud in her own home] whereas her brother was incredibly tidy. My ex, who moaned about me not keeping the house clean and tidy [although it was often because of one of his unfinished projects] now lives ina house thats more chaotic [it once included several feral cats as well] than our family home ever was. I'm not saying you should leave or get a divorce but you definately need to do something; what that is only you can decide. I sometimes used to go out to do shopping or something, get to the end of our road and then keep on driving because I couldn't face going back home and it reached a point where everything my husband did irritated me [even the way he drank his tea]. I always wanted our family home to be friendly and welcoming and to me that always meant not being uber tidy. I wonder if you're the same but it's all got out of hand? We also didn't argue, and I sometimes think a few arguements would have cleared the air; appeasement only works in the short term, doesn't it.

and more importantly

This is your house, and your life. Have them as you want them, and don't be browbeaten by selfish other people who would prefer a pigsty. If daughter doesn't agree with how you keep your house, she is welcome to go elsewhere and keep her own home how SHE likes it.

Or you could take your own belongings (those that are unbroken) and start again somewhere else.

I suppose it is all about personal make-up. All of the above have been part of my life and really never bothered me. Now, maybe this is because I am a bit of a slut - or it maybe that we are simply all different.

Clearly your views on these things are out of synch with the rest of your family and this is what needs sorting out. Cards on the table - "I respect that you don't find these things annoying, but I do so can we create a bit of a compromise here?" What is needed is the avoiddance of accusations and the implication that either side are the better person for their stance - neither is better; they are just different.

One of my DDs was about as slovenly and untidy as it is possible to get - I used to close the door on her room and just tell her that if she wanted to live like that it was her choice, but to please do her best to keep the rest of the home a bit more sanitary. She is still chaotic and sweeps through our home like a whirlwind when she visits - BUT she is the epitome of kindness and loving warmth and I would not change her for the world. We smile at her crazy ways and let them wash by; and, to be fair, she does now make an effort to tidy up what is left in her wake, as she now has a home of her own and knows how hard it can be to keep on top of things.

Take yourself off on a nice holiday - have some fun - let them stew. They will appreciate you all the more when you get back!

DD is quite old to be still at home at 23, so I guess you are both dealing with a situation where she might be better off being independent and making her own chaos. Living with one's adult children is not always easy.

The thing about DD still being at home is that she's just graduated. She was going travelling but got ill in the summer and then it turned out to be glandular fever, so she cancelled the travel plans and coincidentally got herself a rather nice job. She has said she may move in with friends after Christmas but we've been saying nothing and just hoping that she'll recover and keep the job. All the kids are crazily lively and left to her own devices, she'll go out every single night until the early hours and in between try to run, cycle, play in a band etc.
DH came from a posh but unhappy home with appeasing father and estranged younger sister (he was presented to her on her 4th birthday as her present, he has always been doted upon!). Hence I can see his need to never have rows taking place but maybe I just end up paying the price because half the time I don't dare say anything and feel that what I would like has to be squashed.
I do quite like things to be tidy but I'm no goddess, I haven't vacuumed for days and right now it's pretty messy around me. I have blitzs and he does his bits, the typical male stuff of putting out the recycling and washing up because he likes doing the latter but I have to push to get other things done. Chore wars, very familiar to me.

Who did you want to divorce , your husband, your daughter or the way of life that you've all fallen into?

Hit the nail on the head Stansgran ☺️

Well stated Stansgran I do think a large helping of respect needs to be shown by DDs and short sharpe words,I know how bad glandular fever can affect young adults but that does not stop her being responsible for her own space.My DD has always been neat & tidy but her brothers where the worst you could imagine and I made it my business to go into their rooms every day when they lived at home to tidy up and open windows after all it was my house and they lived there under my rules,now the both of them are very houseproud and help 50/50 with anything that needs doing.
Have you & OH ever thought of moving to a 1 bed apartment where no one can stay and the housework is a doddle to do,that was the best choice we ever made,makes for stressfree living.

Aghh I really feel for you. Now just wondering, could you afford going away for a few days to get 'your head (and heart) back together? Somewhere you love, fave mountains, town or seaside- or a friend's- Remain calm make sure you don't scream or lose it- but say as much as you love them- you have to get away for a while- and say, quietly but firmly- that you expect the house, and each and every room to be clean and tidy when you get back- and that it will have to remain so from then on.

Some of us bottle and bottle up- and then explode- and all goes back to square one, until it happens again. Don't let the pattern establish itself, or continue to be so. My OH is a wonderful man- but he is also an 'appeaser' and I know just how infuriating this can be. When daughters were teenager, I had to be the ogre- when I sometimes was desperate for him to take charge. There are historical reasons in his family why he became an appeaser, or disapperared to his office when the going gets tough- but even so, at times I could ahve throttled him. Fortunately his other qualities more than make up for this- and I know I am so lucky.

Don't make threats you are not prepared to carry out. Tell us how you get on- thinking of you.

Thank you so much people, do appreciate your input. I do sometimes explode though I know that's not helpful and I'm better than ever at NOT doing it. The DD living at home has always been sulky and stormy. I've lost count of the things she's broken, her room has a wardrobe door still with broken panels whi h she kicked in one day when she was angry. DH is afraid of upsetting her and everyone else (she has a twin sister) just roll their eyes when they hear it going on. It's a very effective tactic for getting her way.
We're not reality tv level yet I do assure you but sometimes I feel full of despair.

I'm really sorry to hear that you are feeling so unhappy. I'm afraid the situation you describe would drive me mad too.

Your 23 year old daughter would probably be better sharing a house with friends or something - for her own benefit and for yours. It really isn't acceptable her being so unhelpful and slovenly. I also think it is inexcusable for her to have hit you - and your husband at least should have backed you up on that. I can understand why you get so fed up with his passive approach and it seems that it is this that is really causing the rift in your marriage, rather than an actual dislike of him.

As you are feeling so upset, perhaps as others have said, it would be a good idea to get away for a week or so and let them get on with it. Perhaps before going you should say (calmly and firmly) that if things don't change at home - and give brief details of those things that most annoy you - you will leave for good because the present situation is becoming unbearable for you. Like granjura says though, only say this is a practical proposition which you are absolutely prepared to carry through.

Hope you have a calm and pleasant birthday today Anniezzz09[flowerscakewine]

Didn't work

Happy birthday Annie- thinking of you + more 'flower + cake + wine + hugs

I do hope you managed to have a nice day.

I think you need to get away somewhere for a bit and have a good think.

Thank you Stansgran granjura, janerowena and everyone else. I am much buoyed up by the community here. I have had a nice day. Tea out with a couple of old friends then I chose an evening outing to a Hallowe'en event for the family - a visit to 'Nightmare Farm' where we entered a maze and were entertained by various scarey creatures leaping out at us. It was good fun and cheered us all up. Offending DD came and behaved and later said sorry for being so stroppy earlier in the week which is a big step. I shall follow up over the weekend with a bit of a talk I think.
I did also take myself off for the whole day yesterday which was at least a gesture towards a break to think about things. I'm not sure I can go away for longer just yet but I can manage another day next week.
So thank you very much for the listening ears and thoughtful responses, it's really helped. ☺️

annie, just how do you get those tiny little smileys to appear?

(Glad you had a good day! )

Yes! How did you import that emoti?!

Is it on the keyboard? My son mentioned it to me but I wasn't paying attention at the time.

Glad you had a good day.

☺☺☺

The instructions for the smileys are at the bottom of the page where you post. If you scroll down you'll see various smileys with an instruction as to what you do to get them, eg. type the word wink in square brackets and you get a winking smiley...... [wink}

I'd like someone to tell me how you get the name of someone highlighted/tagged so that you indicate you are replying to them when you post.

Thank you so much once again everyone for helping me find some perspective. I feel definitely moved on.

Damn, got the wrong sort of bracket...