I bet you've missed the Idiot - so here is the next instalment - advice please!!

I can't help I'm afraid kitty Except maybe CA could either help or suggest someone who can. Why do people think it's ok to use their children as pawns
I won't high jack your thread but right now I can certainly empathise.

Thanks for the update! It may be a silly question but why exactly does she want the children to keep in touch? They have a wonderful new male role model and the Idiot doesn't sound as if he's likely to be the best influence for them. Have the other GPs asked to see them?

If she needs further backup advise would Social Services be able to help? I know they arrange supervised visits for absent unsuitable parents,perhaps they could advise if there's an organisation which provides similar facilities.

kitty does your dd keep a record of the dates and incidents? Just in case he stops paying.

Yes why bother trying to keep in touch at all? How can she think of letting someone who tried to strangle her near her kids. Sounds like the idiot takes after his father.

Is there a court order in place kitty,if so maybe this needs to be revisited and the needs of the children assessed in terms of contact.
I don't know the circumstances,butwe have had have a d****d instead of an idiot that gave us grief,and a guardian ad litem was used to state E's case and set the terms for contact.
This may then give your daughter the support she needs in handling the situation.

DD doesn't particularly want him to see the children but he won't just go away as it's his last bit of power. Also, she doesn't want it be her 'fault' when the children get to be teenagers if they have no relationship with him!

Lona, she sends us screen shots of everything just in case she loses her phone. All communications are by Whatsapp - he blocks her except when he wants to talk to her.

Nina please feel free - we are all in it together!

I will just say that his latest tack is that if DD want's to Skype the boys she has to buy them a device because he's stopped them communicating with her via the iPad he bought them. He didn't like it when she had to suddenly stop the conversation she was having with him (with good reason) so now he's taken his ball indoors and nobody is going to play !! %#@

As a family they don't sound like the sort of people that you'd want to look after your children/grandchildren. Trying to choke your dd sounds like a reason for supervised contact only to me.

I agree Lona

I agree with Lona
In any case, the DC should not have unsupervised contact with her PIL if that is the sort of thing FIL does. What a great role model - as is his son.
What about MIL - Does she think that is normal and acceptable?

Mil has, apparently, been the butt of this sort of behaviour for years! Even the Idiot told DD to report his father to the police. But, it was all very early on in DD's 'recovery' and only those who have any experience (first hand or not) will understand how defeated she was. She is emerging (with the help of the lovely new partner] but she can still be 'unbalanced' by the Idiot. The Idiot has been told never to leave the children with his parents and I don't believe he would!

B na, that sounds just like the infantile sort of thing the Idiot would do! Do you still have contact with the children?

I even proof read that post!! b na Nina

Yes kitty he's only too happy for us to have them. We usually have them over night once a week

Nina how nice that you are the stable influence in the children's lives. kitty I really don't know if I would want father and family in their lives but can understand that your DD does not want to be the one who cuts off contact as it may rebound in the future. I am so upset that my DD's marriage is over but the fact that they are both older as are the children means that things are amicable and the children understand and are able to cope better.They see their father every other weekend,one of which they stay with him and the other he comes to the house and stays for dinner. He now has a new lady in his life but is keeping it seperate from their visits at the moment but they do know about her.

ann60 It's so nice to hear that your dd and her ex are being so civilised. If only all marriage breakups went so well!

So different story with S and his ex. My GD and him don't have a relationship to speak of, if it suits either of them they will meet up but no tears shed or hurt feelings if they don't. So wrong in my book.

Oh dear Kitty I thought things were getting better.

B----y endless isn't it.

Kitty I would suggest your DD does not push the contact with idiots family at all. I am not sure how old they are now, are any of them of an age to make a sensible decision about this?

If the children do ask why he does not see them suggest to your daughter that she keeps noncommital about the idiots failings, which hopefully she will.

The best option would be to wait and leave it up to the idiot to ask for contact. If it is a reasonable request allow contact supervised or otherwise and allow the children to decide what they want to do about contact when they are old enough to decide for themselves.
Get DD to send him a list of dates when he really cannot have them as DD is busy.

DD has stopped asking the Idiot if he would like to see his children but is determined not to stand in the way of them knowing their father. She talks to them about him if they bring it up but doesn't ever tell them her real thoughts! The same cannot be said about him.

The children are 3.5 and 2.5, so unable to make any sense of it at all. He is 51 so I'm not sure what his excuse is!!

No downtoearth there is no court order in place as she would be happy to see them on a regular basis. Can one be in place that forces him to see them? His argument has always been (and fairly justifiably IMO) that he quite often has to work weekends. Other weekends, of course, he has to go to weddings, stag weekends etc etc.

It's really difficult for her but also for us to see her being constantly upset and that is why I wondered if there was any organisation who could help her work out what is the best way forward. Although I think he is a hopeless case as he is so volatile and unstable.

This is so hard, but at this stage I would really want all the maintenance, access, etc, to be done properly via the Courts, and not left up to his whim.
he is far too volatile to leave it all up in the air, I'd say.

I so feel for you- it is never ending. (((( hugs ))))

DD3 has sent him an email (he has blocked her from any other form of contact!) telling him what the contact terms will be in future and if he doesn't stick to them she will stop him from seeing them and he will have to take her to court.

We now await the next instalment.

I agree with other posters that a court order needs to be in place to formalise times and places for contact so that the Idiot has no excuse for manipulation. Your DD sounds as if she has had more than enough of his messing about. If he chooses not to see the children at these times, that is his decision. It would also help providing stability for the children.

Mind you, we tried doing this with our Idiot 1 who just kept sidestepping any attempts to make contact arrangements. He never turned up, and hasn't seen his son for over 8 years. But of course goes round telling this sob story that he is not allowed to see the child!

At least your Idiot pays in regularly, which is more than can be said for either of the Idiots who fathered my DD3's boys. How on earth did our daughters get involved with these irresponsible and manipulative men?

Just because they ARE manipulative Jud. What baffles me is the fact that DD3's older sisters married really decent men and we brought all the girls up the same!

unfortunately the bad boys are exciting,and however we bring our girls up sometimes they just cant resist them....and then they get their fingers burnt...and we get the fall out ..sorry kitty no offence meant,but have been through this myself