Christenings - a farce for non-believers?

I was not christened (my parents were atheists right back in the 1950s I am proud to say) and neither were my children. I attended one RC christening on my DH side of the family. I found it offensive, full of references to casting out the baby's innate evil. The next time one came up on that side of the fence I went to the off licence and then waited outside.
A naming ceremony would be nice if you had a happy family who all got on and wanted to get together for a party.
I was completely amazed when my younger cousin asked me to be godmother (CofE) to her daughter!!! Moi?! I read the service to see what was involved - renouncing the devil and all his works it seems. OKayyyyy When her brother got christened we were all trapped in a very long, evangelical, morning service - by which i mean they have ditched all the good hymns so no enjoyable singing - (rather than a quick in and out christening) The vicar was railing against Charles marrying Camilla, at some length! Whiled away the time looking up bits in the Bible about King Solomon and his wives and concubines etc and passing them to other relatives.

I agree about the length of the service nowadays, baptism usually included in the morning family service. The last one I attended was like an extension of Cbeebies, there was a puppet show and the hymns sounded as if they were written for the Tweenies. The parents put on a very civilised lunch, with decent wine, afterwards.

All our girls were married and the GC baptised by the same wonderful minister in Kelso. He is the most amazing, funny, sincere man.

After the service, which all the Sunday School children attend, the Rev takes the baby right around the church to show him/her to everyone and welcome him/her into the community.
This Rev also conducted the small funeral of our darling GD Maggie ..and knew exactly what to say..and he even 'included'' Maggie in her brothers baptism the following year.

I have heard of a few 'naming ceremonies' and I think it is a wonderful idea and much more sincere than a church christening ''for the sake of it''

The Humanist Association will arrange naming ceremonies and will provide the celebrant. According to their website this person will help with making up the ceremony to the wishes of the parents and friends of the child to be named and sugggest suitable music or verses. They charge about £150 to £250 so I've heard.

Thanks, Jangly. Yes, it is "Forever Young". As to which came first, probably the Schumann one - Dylan is my all time great favourite, but it cannot be denied that he derived a lot of his material from others.

Some C of E vicars will perform marriage ceremonies for non-baptised people -I think it depends on their attitude. Some seem to take the view that any way of hauling them in is a priority; others are more purist.

The oddest thing I came across was a vicar that would not baptise my eldest grandson unless one of this godparents was a practising Christian. My daughter had to hastily add one of her fellow teachers to the group, given than none of her friends or relatives met the necessary qualification!

Dead meaningful, that.

Grumpy - I am so sorry about Maggie. I can't think of anything to add.

I was quite keen to have my elder daughter Christened because my husband had done a runner whilst I was pregnant. 30years ago there were few single Mums of my aquaintance and I wanted to let the world know that although I was now on my own I wanted to celebrate her birth. The local vicar was a delight having visited me in hospital when I had her. His take on it was that as long as she was going to be brought up in a loving home he would be very happy to welcome us warmly. The service was for 2 or 3 other families and yet our little party was not made to feel in anyway different. It was a lovely day and I had cut up my wedding dress to make her a bonnet and gown. The whole thing was deeply cathartic. I am not a fully paid up Church goer but that experince made me feel very much included at a time when I felt a bit of an outcast.

The British Humanist Association will do a "naming" ceremony, but I think most of us think "just have a party".

And Hilda - I found your post very moving, and although I am not religious, I do remember the village vicar when I was a child. If anyone criticised him baptising children who seemed "outside" the usual circle, he would say "the Christian Church began with the cry of a child"

Here's the link: http://www.humanism.org.uk/ceremonies/humanist-namings

Nice to hear of some professed christians behaving in a christian way and suffering the little children to come unto them.

jangran, re Schumann deriving a lot of his material from others — so did Bach, so did Shakespeare, so did Newton and Einstein. The 'good greats' will all acknowledge that they have stood on the shoulders of giants to achieve what they did.

Just to say that the Humanist Association will also arrange funerals. One of the "best" funerals I have been to was a humanist one. The celebrant (is that what she was called) contacted friends of the deceased to talk about him, and incorporated several stories from them in her address, and had a few minutes silence for people to think their own thoughts, and pray if they wanted to. The music was just what he would have chosen - a bit of classical, a bit of more modern, and the final piece as we were leaving was the music of "The saints go marching in" but with someone singing a Hibees song to it. The tea-and-buns afterwards was at Hibs stadium, within view of the hallowed turf and his season-ticket seat in the stand.

I think I shall cross-post my previous post to the funerals thread.

Grumpy and Hilda - I am glad you were treated as you should have been, was especially touched, Baggy that your darling Maggie was 'included' by the lovely Kelso minister. My daughter, a single mum, brought her baby to be baptised and was made very welcome by folk who had known her at Sunday School. Babies are also carried through the congregation to be welcomed. A Church of Scotland service like this is very personal and family-oriented and no place at all for 'casting out the devil'. The baby is mentioned in the welcome and the prayers of the main service and children take an active part. RC baptisms I have attended seem very ritualistic and impersonal. Jangran, don't want to offend, but if there were no practising Christians as godparents, why did they agree to be godparents?

Baggy - was just about to quote "Suffer little children..." And I love, Jackyann, your minister's line. So it's all been said, as far as I'm concerned.

There have been no christenings in my family since my Grandmother - she was born in 1897!! There is no reason why parents couldn't hold their own naming ceremony - if you make it legal the retailers will hop on and make a bundle of cash out it. In a church christening it does mean that the child is a member of that church, therefore it and parents should attend. The God- parent role is to ensure that the child's religious education is implemented. I remember a friend who had a God mother received gifts like a prayer book, bible etc and the God mother made sure she was confirmed into the Church of England. Often in the past God- parents would take over parental roles in the case of the parents' demise.
I think now it's an excuse for a pretty ceremony,party and a pile of presents. Just like church weddings.
Sorry PoppaRob I hated the poem/song, the scan was terrible and it was a bit over sentimental. Sorry!

We did not have our DSs baptised because we were non-church-goers and believed it was hypocritical. We knew that if we brought them up to think for themselves, they would be able to make their own decisions about religious beliefs and observations. They have grown up as non-believers and have made the same decisions about my GC. When my newborn DS2 was in SCBU, one of my friends was very upset that we weren't having him christened immediately in case he didn't make it. Who would want to believe in the kind of god that would shut a child out of heaven just for being un-baptised?

He wouldn't!

If god shuts unbaptised children out of heaven, then it wouldn't be heaven for me.

I am sorry to say that I felt I had to have my daughter baptised, because the best primary school locally was linked to the church in question. I felt that my principles (I am strongly atheist) were as nothing compared to her education. Otherwise, I wouldn't have gone near the place. Certainly never went near it afterwards. Complete hypocrite on the matter.

I agree with you entirely, my grandchildren aren't christened either. My faith slipped quite a while ago but I wouldn't press my children on their beliefs and whether or not to go ahead with a christening.

I find a lot of people treat it as a 'Birth-party' and expect presents, its not about bringing their children up in a Christian faith.

fatfairy, the system that pressurises people into doing this is wrong and needs changing. In a secular education system people would be free to hold whatever religious beliefs they like, and to belong to whatever church they like, or not, as the case may be, but that would all be irrelevant (as it should be in my opinion) as far as schools were concerned.

I agree with grumpy and em that usually a church of scotland baptism is a lovely ceremony. My children and grandchildren have all been baptised but I do respect people who choose not to. Why be hypocritical just to have a big party and get lots of presents. A naming ceremony is a good idea but why pay the humanist society a lot of money to perform it. Why not just have a family friend say a few words about the family and welcome the baby.

I'm afraid the school/baptism link absolutely horrifies me and I am so glad that parents in Scotland don't have to become hypocrites for the sake of childrens' education. As I said earlier, families and society at large should be able to accommodate different points of view. I agree that a god who would deny anything at all to an innocent child is not to be worshipped or even acknowledged.

I'm a full-on, practising Christian, but I chose not to have my children christened. Instead we had a church ceremony during which we, as parents, made a commitment to teach our children about the Christian faith. There were no Godparents. When our children reached their teen years we encouraged them to explore their own understanding of faith and make their own decisions.