What's Happened to Manners

Last year, I was on the Tube and Docklands Light Railway and happened to be carrying a portable seat which looked like a tripod walking stick. I was never short of a seat! Felt a bit of a fraud though.

Help!

My GC from away have just gone and I feel very sad - I am frankly relieved, and that is not how I want to feel. It breaks my heart.

On the few occasions in the past that I have had them on my own, they have been fine - no means no and if they fight over anything I just take it away and tell them they can have it back when they have worked out a way to share. I did get quite firm this w/e with oldest boy and confiscated what he was playing with for very good reason. He fought me tooth and nail. Answered back, refused to give up the item, shouted..... I could not believe it.

The way the two older ones speak to their mother/my D is appalling! They answer back, tell her she is stupid - you would not believe it. And a simple request to put shoes and socks on results in eldest lad just walking away and ignoring Mum - then getting into a strop that has to be seen to be believed - nothing comes easy - no moment of the day is without this nonsense - this boy will be 9 in January!

The really sad thing is that the smallest GS who lives nearby has picked all this up and we have had a right royal battle with him this evening. He will be 3 next week and has never been any trouble - in fact a joy to be with. But he was bound to act out sometime as he has had a difficult year with his Mum ill for months and a new baby around. It is just unfortunate that this has coincided with this appalling role model to copy this weekend.

So....what do I do? Do I tell my daughter that the situation is out of control and that she is getting it wrong, or do I bite my tongue, which is what I have always done, as I do not believe in interfering? Because she is undoubtedly getting it wrong - she relates to the oldest boy as an equal - her chastisements are almost in the form of "dares" - some of her "firm" behaviour is almost jokey. There is no sense of an adult relating to a child. I do not know what to do.

I was travelling with a colleague on the underground a couple of months back, and we got into a rather crowded tube. A large group of children (seemed to be aged between 11ish to around 13?) all immediately got up from their seats to allow us to sit down. We thanked them and sat down. This was repeated at various stops, but some of the (older) people that these kids had vacated their seats for didn't even thank them.

The children were not British, we were unable to identify the language (def. not French or German) and seemed to be on a school trip.

Their manners were exemplary, unfortunately the people who they were giving up seats for didn't meet that standard.

It's a two way street with manners, if someone holds the door/gives up a seat/lets you out at a junction etc, it should be acknowledged.

Hello, pompa, we haven't had the pleasure of your company for a while. Are you OK? Has Christmas got the better of you yet? .

JessM - well, how much were they asking for that ray? I like Jenni's reason for buying it, unless, of course that MiL is me.

Hello Annobel, I have posted my personal update in the "Quiet corner" All is well

Oh Mishap poor you. If you can find a way to suggest that she needs some help with parenting skills that would be good. You'll have to bite your lip and avoid the "should" word though...

I've been pleasantly surprised just recently on the underground that young men have given up their seat for me. Not so on the train. They just bury their head further into their newspaper. I do think it is wrong that young children are not encouraged by their parents to give up their seat for their elders. It does bug me that parents don't pop them onto their lap and let an older person sit down.
I love Gally's retort and hope I can remember it should the occasion arise.
I see a lot of my GC and am very lucky in that their parents are strict on the manners front - though I've not been with them on the trains with their parents!- also the schools they go to are also hot on good manners but they are still at primary school and it could all change when they eventually make the move.

Mishap You need to say something for the sake of both your daughter and the children. But do it in a way that seems like an offer to help.

It will only get worse otherwise. A friend's daughter was unable to discipline the granddaughter because the son in law, her husband, always blocked her and sided with the child. The child reached her mid teens and committed severe domestic violence against her mum, ie my friend's daughter. The police were called and now divorce is looming.

A little trouble now can prevent devastation later.

DD3’s school is always reminding the children about the manner of manners. The school rule, after the do as you would be done by "golden rule" is: Respect yourself, respect others, respect your surroundings. The teachers are firm but polite with the children. Nothing like giving a good example, is there?

Spot on, bagitha. Respect is vital.

The one thing my sons hated most when at school was the way some teachers used sarcasm. Lazy, thoughtless and disrespectful.

www.amazon.co.uk/Divas-Dictators-Secrets-Having-Behaved/dp/0091923859

www.amazon.co.uk/Talk-Kids-Will-Listen-Child/dp/1853407054/ref=pd_sim_b_3

Mishap both of these books have got excellent tips on managing children whose behaviour is disruptive or disrespectful (usually because the parents haven't modelled correct behaviour to them). I've bought books over the years, read them myselves and passed them to my children to use, saying 'I found this really helpful for me, so I got another copy as you might be able to use it, too.'

sorry - meant 'read them myself'

It is spot on, isn't it, butty? and what I like best about the approach is the acknowledgement that self-respect is as important as any other kind and, in fact, leads the way for other kinds of respect.

It strikes me that 'respect' has taken on a different meaning in recent years. To 'dis' (ie disrespect) has become part of the gang culture argot. If someone looks sideways at a gang member he risks stabbing or shooting. I guess that 'respect' in that world means absolute adherence to the particular gang's ethos and to its leadership, on pain of very nasty repercussions.

Mishap, is their dad aware of their behaviour? Sometimes dad can be much more of an influence with boys that mum can.

Many thanks Carol for the book suggestions - a good thought.

Yes jingl - their dad is very hands-on - but he finds it hard to discipline the boys as my D does not like it when he does! Crux of the problem maybe?

I'm wondering why she not prepared to discipline her children herself, or allow her husband to do so.
Is it that does not know how or that she doesn't want to?
Perhaps she does not see that their behaviour is problematic?
Is it only you that finds it so or are your concerns shared by others?

No excuse for bad manners. My 2 year old GD says please may I and thank you and also excuse me if she needs to get past. If we thank her she replies " you're welcome " She also apologises if she bumps into us and gives us a hug.

My 2 year old GS is the same, harri. Something to do with his always being set a good example, perhaps?

Today I observed his father teaching him something else too. GS and parents were getting ready to go out. Once GS had his shoes and coat on he started agitating a bit, getting anxious that everybody wasn't immediately getting into the car. Daddy spoke his name and said: "Pa...." GS then said: "Patience!" and calmed down.

Bagitha

Our wee man was very uptight with his little wooden train and track because it would keep unhitching itself - thanks to his clumsy, impatient handling. I sat with him and patiently explained that, if he treated it "gently", all would be well. Once he got the hang of being "gentle", the train stayed on the track. I applauded his patience and he, in turn, clapped his hands in glee. Apparently, the wee train is now his pride and joy. He has learned the skill necessary to get it over a bridge and through a tunnel without having to resort to a mini-tantrum.

Today's kids are definitely more lively than we were. More inclined to leap all over the place!

But they shouldn't be allowed to be rude to you. And they should calm down when you tell them to (for a while at least ).

I think you need to tell your daughter quite firmly she has to do something about this, and certainly let Dad do some disciplining.

I mean "more than ours were"

Baggy - that's great!

Children should not occupy seats when adults are standing on trains/buses not only because it is bad manners but also because they are only paying half fare. Buses used to have notices to that effect. I always made my children sit on my knee if adults were standing and I do the same with my grandchildren but I too sometimes find the adults do not bother to thank them! I often hold open doors etc and if the person does not bother to thank me I very loudly say Oh thanks very much! (a bit childish but makes me feel better!)

Mishap Raising Boys is an excellent book. I have suggested this book before on Gransnet. It must be upsetting for you, but I believe you need to speak to your daughter.

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