Can i pleaseee post this here?

The only publication I trust is Private Eye and they did an eight page supplement some months ago on what happens to whistle blowers in the NHS. They are often ostracised, bullied, and have allegations made against them. When my older daughter was training as a nurse, she saw an anaesthetist fondling a woman's breast and making deregotary remarks about her figure. My daughter asked the theatre sister if they should report it and told she could kiss her career goodbye if she did.

That is outrageous glammanana
Appropriate response would be: Thank you very much for bringing this to our attention and I will make sure it does not happen again.
It is usually more subtle, variants on the theme of palming you off so you will shut up and go away.

I so agree greatnan when my lovely mum was left at meal times unable to feed herself (I was told by a patient in the opposite bed) I made it my business to complain to the ward staff that I was not impressed at all,the following day when I went in to visit after travelling from Standish where I was based to Arrowpark Hospital during rush hour through Liverpool (not in the best of moods) I was hauled into the Ward Sisters office and told if I wanted to complain I was not to do it on the ward in front of other patients and their visitors but to make an appointment and discuss mums diet with the dietition,I did not want the dietition only someone to make sure she could reach her food tray,they registered me as a disruptive relative and where very off with me for the rest of the time mum was in their ward.

I agree greatnan - it is very difficult to do so though. It sometimes feels as if medical and nursing staff have had special training in shutting people up. Specially if you are a relative.
Oh em , really hard. Keep reminding yourself that the consultant is your servant and that he/she gets paid by taxpayers. Sometimes they will ring you back if you leave a message in the ward, or they do have secretaries as well if you can track them down.

Perhaps the British stoicism and reluctance to complain can lead to poor service. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. I wish I had been more foreceful on the night my daughter came close to death. Sometimes you just have to forget politeness and shout.

em I don't know what hospital practice is like near you, but here in some of the hospitals in Manchester, they often advise patients who have been discharged to contact the ward with problems within a few days of discharge, leaving a message for the consultant to get when he does his ward round - the consultant will then phone the patient at home and they get chance to discuss the problem. They also tell them to come in to the ward when phone calls are made that lead to a hospital visit, to curtail the messing about via A and E or admissions - if a bed is needed, they will speak to the bed manager from the ward to explain. It does create some tension and occasional waiting for a bed, but seems to work better than going round the houses every time. Usually the ward sister will know the patient well enough to be able to determine what is needed. It certainly sounds like your daughetr needs to be in urgent touch with the correct consultant.

Yes Jess - urology department. I think you are spot on when you say there's been an oversight as far as communication goes. Consultant with duty doc - hospital with GP - hospital with chronic pain team - etc. The only helpful thing was contacting the GP practice/district nurse team because I had sickly GD there for appointment about throat infection/cfs! If I hadn't been in the right place at the right time, I don't know how long it would have taken for things to get in place. As it is, still no definite diagnosis, no indication of how they will wind down the morphine. no idea how long she'll need 24/7 catheters. All this along with chronic RA and 2 toddlers. Aaaaaaaaah!

Oh I see em - and department involved is renal not general medical is it?
(my mother was under care of a general medical specialist for years, when we all wanted her to get a referral to a chest specialist for her v bad asthma)
I wonder if the consultant is fully aware of situation then. I know there are handovers etc but in the busy rush he/she may not be fully aware. Whatever - the GP should have a hospital discharge letter. Part of NHS tradition seems to involve a typist generating these letters, rather than a doctor emailing them. So there are sometimes delays...

Granb I am so sorry to hear about your baby GS and send every sympathy as you will be feeling this pain twice over - once as a Gran and again for his parents. Hospitals and doctors can be seem very unfeeling at times like these - I suspect because of a lack of communication. I remember being sent my 6 week check up appointment at the same clinic as other mums who had given birth with me - regardless of the fact that my baby had died just 2 weeks before. When I asked for a different time and clinic I got a very impatient response until I explained why - nobody had put his death on my notes. I know the NHS is a huge organisation and hospitals can be huge places, but a little joined-up thought could save some of that extra pain.
Em I am horrified by your D's experience and really hope that you and she find a satisfactory outcome. Her health is paramount, but her and your peace of mind need to be taken into account too.

Grand so sorry to hear about your baby grandson. That must be so devastating for the whole family.

Granb - each time I've come on GN in the last few days my intention had been to say how sorry I am about your GS. I can't imagine how awful it must be for you (plus the waiting). I apologise for being so hung up with my family problems - sometimes we lose sight of the bigger picture. X

Granb so sorry to hear about your baby grandson. I hope you and the rest of your family get some sort of resolution soon.

On the topic of suing and not suing - surely, some people are strong enough to fight and find it cathartic, while others take the path of least resistance and do nothing because that is how they want to deal with it. Yet others will just make a formal complaint because they want things to improve with out having to throw themselves in at the deepend. People have to be true to themselves when faced with appalling situations.

It takes all sorts.

Jess our local hospital where DD received treatment is in fact a large teaching hospital and I think that may be part of the problem - a fairly large department where consultant said one thing but the duty doctor said another. DD is now coping at home with catheters and vast amount of medication one visit from district nursing team and a promised visit from her GP. Yesterday a letter arrived giving an appointment with urology nurse next Monday. No nearer to a solution and I still worry about her having to rely on oral morphine at home!

Granb so sorry to hear about your lost baby grandson. A veery sad thing.

Well quite Greatnan.
There is also the possibility of a written complaint to the hospital (with copy to your MP) sometimes, which can have a similar effect.
I think before taking action you need to think of what kind of outcome you hope to achieve (e.g. prevent individual or hospital from continuing poor/bad practice and harming others, financial compensation for loss, feel less angry etc) and then try to find out or decide which course of action is most likely to get you the result you want. Another question is whether the problem was caused by an individual or an organisational failure.

It is true that in the UK there is very little redress for pain and suffering, but I think that sometimes it is necessary to sue to make people face up to their responsibilities. I am not speaking simply of medical mistakes, but in such cases as a company failing to provide proper safety procedure for employees or the general public. Bad publicity might make them reconsider.
Incidentally, I was unable to obtain any compensation for my losses and obviously I did not ask my daughter to cover them.

Em - This does not sound right. Is there any chance she could try another hospital? They do vary a lot.
People can find themselves on general medical wards in smaller hospitals and that is not the same as a specialist unit. GP can refer anywhere. Good teaching hospital with specialist unit?
I always think if what you have got wrong with you is a known, common condition you are probably fine in an average hospital. If it is a rare condition or undiagnosed worries then go up a notch. If possible finding out where is good.

Greatnan sorry, not disagreeing with your daughter suing. Just think if there has been no actual loss, just poor treatment , then you are not going to get much money out of them for distress, delay etc and it is going to be a whole lot of hassle. So it is not always a good option for everyone.

This strikes chord - recently lost baby grandson. There were clearly problems with DIL's pregnancy that were missed - she is waiting for appointment with her consultant (has been promised this for three weeks now) and had to ask whether they had forgotten that her baby had actually died!! Also waiting for results of PM on baby although they were promised they would have this at end of February and son and DIL have been kept informed of progress there. Maybe because different hospitals involved?

There was programme on Radio 4 last week about doctors taking on responsibility - part 2 is this week

em, you've got to complain, you really have. That is awful. for DD.

We have yet to see how things go with my daughter. I think we may have to lodge some sort of complaint. Last Saturday she was told by consultant that simply sorting out pain relief in order to get her home, was not the priority and he had to have an accurate diagnosis of her problem, therefore ordered a CTscan for Monday. They had discovered that any time they removed the catheter she was bleeding badly so has to be catheterised.
On Tuesday morning she was seen by another doctor who said that nothing significant had shown up so he'd discharge her the same afternoon. A little later she arrived home with a supply of catheter tubes and bags plus a carrier bag full of drugs! No warning, no time to prepare, no real diagnosis, no advice BUT complete with the oral morphine she needed - despite being told a few days earlier that she would not be discharged while she still needed it. She has to have this prescribed and supplied an alternate days but her GP surgery had not been notified so no prescription was ready.
At this stage we encountered the officious receptionist who told us that it was too late to have prescription made up and she'd have to wait until the next day!! Tearful daughter asked to speak to GP and was told it could be collected immediately.
She is exhausted, attached to a catheter and bag 24/7, unable to do much for herself and still has no diagnosis. Has been promised a visit from the Chronic Pain Control team next week and her own GP will also visit. An appointment has been made for the hospital clinic in 2 weeks time. I just feel she has been abandoned!

I believe there has been discussion about putting into place a 'no blame' policy in the NHS, where somebody injured by a genuine mistake could still be compensated, without anybody being sued or punished.
We all know that mistakes happen and probably no doctor goes through their professional life without making some, but there is no reason why patients should be left without redress, or forced to go into a confrontational nightmare.
In fact, I believe the statistics are that one in ten patients in UK hospitals is injured in some way by their treatment.

The financial loss you suffered, along with your daughter, was good reason to sue Greatnan. If only there was a straightforward process that meant people didn't get traumatised all over again by asserting their rights.

My daughter lost her business and then her home, which she had remortgaged to start the business - she is still unable to work. She needed to sue purely to get a home back for her and her children - I had to sell my house in France and lend her the money to pay off her business debts. The extra cost of renting for four years and all my air and ferry fares when I had to go back to take her to appointments, etc were not reclaimable. I ended up over £30,000 out of pocket.
A complaint to the GMC would not have helped her financially, so there was no alternative but to sue.
Horses for courses indeed - she said it was cathartic to be able to talk about the way she was treated after the operation.

Yes well, just complaining to GMC is an alternative. Coping with the cancer treatment should win hands down every time, over legal battles. Unless you really need occupational therapy for anger, and need something to do with that energy. And as you say, it is a very long drawn out process.
And then there is maybe finding some space to enjoy life, in between treatment bouts?