I can't sleep from the worry of it all

I do not want to trivialise this situation in any way as child welfare is very important...I have a daughter with depression and poss other probs who all her life has refused help...We hardly speak and I have missed out on quite a lot of time with two of her children...I can only say that what we think of as the right way to feed or bring up children is not the norm for many...I worried sick about the nutrition of my daughters first 2 boys now 25 and 23 and over 6 feet each and gym regularly ...real babe magnets...they survived...not brought up my way but survived....please do not worry too much keep in touch with daughter as I do....let her know you are there and care...Schools are on the ball now as far as welfare is concerned and will be monitoring the children behind the scenes and will act if they think necessary....I have radio 4 on all night quietly as when things were bad years ago I could not sleep for worrying and I still go to sleep listening it has saved my sanity many a time...please things will be fine or at least not as bad as you think right now.....

Dear Dolly - I feel so much for you. We had a situation years ago in my husbands family which ended with the little boy concerned going to live with his grand parents. The child's father would not believe his wife was not parenting properly. For the children's sake you need to maintain contact with your daughter and her partner. I know how difficult it is to have to watch and not be able to take action.
Would they let you have the children once a week after school or on Saturdays?
I think the school were trying to make a point - my grandson's school definitely keeps spare clothes and changes pupils when needed, whether due to an 'accident' or excessive water play.

Others will know more about soc services, I'm probably with you on the worry side - the most important factor in their little lives is having you loving them and knowing you are there. They will soon be old enough to understand more about their own physical care and you will be able to guide them. Placate your daughter so that you can be there for them - nothing else matters. You are very brave and loving to share and if you can, be strong and stick with it, and it will come right for you and the children.

Clinical depression is a terrible thing and leaves you unable to see things as they really and everything loses perspective. If you are both in this situation it must be very hard.

What about your husband, can he intervene?

Were/are you a very good mother and housekeeper? Maybe your daughter is feeling unable to live up to what she sees as your epectations?

I think you have to make it really clear that your love for her is unconditional and that you will always be there for her.

Don't take on too much for yourself, it won't help either of you. There is an excellent small book by Dr Christopher Cantopher called Depression the Curse of the Strong which you might find helpful.

I think you need to sit back and see just how much at risk the GDs are and then only you can decide whether to take it further. Do you ever meet them from school? If you do perhaps you could engineer an opportunity to talk to one of their teachers and get to know them to see how you think they would react if you raised your concerns? It is such a big leap if you are not sure how it will be received.

I really feel for you.

So long as you are sure the children are happy, and safe.

You say she flew into a rage with you. Does she need her medication reviewing?
Could you or your husband go with her on her next visit to the doctor? (I hope she's not on a repeat prescription)

Thanks to all of you for taking the time and effort to help. It really is appreciated

I agree with grrranny.

I think sitting on hands for a bit as you say is a wise move. As long as children basically ok and you are keeping eye on the situation it can tick along for a bit. Someone suggested your daughter could speak to her GP as perhaps more could be done to tackle her depression (good to know it is not drink or drugs related). Jeni who doesn't seem to be around today could possibly give some advice about that.

Dolly Social Services are there to put emotional splints on to those who need them and they are not basically about taking children away except as a last resort or causing more trouble. It is too expensive for one thing. Better by far to help parents cope themselves.

You were abandoned so had to be cared for by others so you are naturally wary, Your daughter is there but finding things difficult. With a bit of help - professional as well as yours - she will probably find her feet again after a while and be on top of things. You can't force her to seek help (unless you believe the children are in danger, in which case I don't think you would hesitate) but you can encourage her to get all the support she can.

Hi grrrranny

No drink or drugs involved with any of us i am pleased to say. All of us only drink birthdays christmas etc. and definitely no drugs. My husband works in forensic nursing dealing a lot with those problems and i am glad to say my DD apart from one silly mistake in her teens has never bothered with drugs. She does take prescribed pills for depression but thats it. Her partner is the same. He drives for a living.

I might just sit on my hands for a bit and see what happens. If she does ask again I may suggest what Elegran said, but i am very uncomfortable about doing it. I must stress that i was abandoned as a baby and adopted by my paternal GPs who have long since passed away. Because of my experiences i am a bit anti social services to be honest.

Dolly I may not know the full picture but from what you've said so far, it seems to me that your daughter has suggested twice that you should get in touch with social services; once when she couldn't cope and once as a 'threat' when she thought you were interfering. Either way, she isn't saying don't do it.

I know she isn't giving the same message consistently to you but that's probably due to the depression. Perhaps she can't think rationally at the moment or really does want help and is just scared of the consequences if anyone else gets involved.

I agree with what others have written that whoever gets involved, it doesn't have to be a negative experience. It's in no-one's best interests to take the children away from her and some appropriate support at the right time can keep things on track and mean exactly the opposite.

Ask yourself if you're over-reacting to the incident at school or if there really is genuine cause for concern due to continuing or worstening problems. If it's giving you sleepless nights and causing you to be so upset, chances are it's the latter. But I sometimes think all the worry about what to do is worse than actually making the decision to do something and it turning out badly.

Unfortunately for us all, life doesn't come with a rule book of the right and wrong things to do when things trouble us (I wish it did, but knowing me I probabaly wouldn't read it!). So all you can do is go with your instincts. At least you will have the comfort of knowing that whatever you did was out of love and care for your daughter and her children.

Remember to look after yourself too - perhaps a visit to your doctor to see if he can help or support you in any way?

Dolly Are the usual suspects, drink and/or drugs around with your daughter and/or partner?

Elegran such a good idea and she should be made aware that Child Services are the last people who would want to split up her family,they are only too happy to help with parenting issues and guidence when things get a bit tough for her.

From what you have said, dolly, it doesn't sound as though your daughter really wants the authorities involved - she probably wrote the e-mail at a time of stress. Once the wheels are set in motion there's going back, and she would only blame you in the longrun.

Try to let her see you're on her side and do what you can for the little girls in the meantime (as of course you already do). Your daughter possibly needs some encouragement and praise for the way she's trying to cope, so she doesn't feel like a failure.

Dolly If she wants to you to phone Social Services again, can you grab the moment and suggest you do it together? You could do the actual phoning and say that she needs help to get herself going, or some such thing, and she could sit beside you and know that you are not "reporting" her or interfering? She might even feel she could speak to them herself - probably through her tears - if you had broken the ice.

It seems to me that she knows she is having difficulty coping, but cannot admit it for fear of facing condemnation and losing her children.

this is just it Anagram. One minute she says one thing and the next she totally reverses it . I appologise as i am in such a muddle i am not explaining things clearly.
She emailed me the other day saying that she wanted me to phone social services as she could not look after them properly. I think she was having a bad day. Then the bed wetting issue arose. When i broached the subject with her in what i thought was a sensitive way (obviously not) she flew into a rage and threatened to stop us having access and keep our nose out. This is what i am getting at i guess. We keep getting mixed messages.

dolly, why does your daughter want you to phone Social Services? Is it for help? I'm a bit confused here, I had thought she was threatening to withdraw access if you phoned them.

Thanks Goldengran

I really do appreciate all the helpful relies. It is heartwarming to know there are other nannas out there to talk to. Although i am 49 i am the only GP amongst all my friends, so it is helping me a lot.

Dolly what a horrible situation for you to be in. This is just the place for you to talk about it, so no apologies needed for starting this thread, Gransnet is kind caring and there are a few very wise and informed people her, so carry on posting. (((hugs)))

i truly dont want to interfere As i said in my original post, my concern is for my grandaughters welfare. The problem is that we are often asked to help out and regularly have the youngest to stay over with us. This means we already have a lot more input than many grandparents.
I also have a huge worry over my daughter asking ME to ring social services on her behalf. She said that if i rang they would take more notice as if she did it they would ignore her. One minute i am being asked to get heavily involved and the next being told to butt out. I am confused, torn and just so unsure of what to do for the best.

If the school is concerned, their child protection measures will kick in and they may take steps to inform Child Services that they suspect neglect which would trigger support measures. On the other hand, this episode may be the wake-up call your daughter needed. I don't think you need do more at present because it is important to maintain your relationship with your daughter and if anything smacked of interference, she might take it amiss.

They don't have to have a discussion with you, but you can feed information and concerns to them and they have a duty to act on any concerns. Think carefully about what you want from the school, as any alarmist information is duty-bound to be referred to social services. All child protection/safeguarding training dictates that any wprker in the statutory agencies (school, health etc) must report a concern that a child is at risk on the same working day to their manager, who must act on that information.

Raising a concern that you want to support the children and that mum is struggling is not saying they are at risk.

Thank you so much for all your replies.

I must say that i have offered help and support over and over again and tell my daughter all the time that i love her and care about her and the children. Even though i can barely walk, my husband is a nurse and we have even offered to have them stay for a period of time so she can sort herself out but she never takes up the offer.
I cannot talk to her partner as he is a big part of her problems and quite frankly is useless as said by my daughter on numerous occasions. I do not like to interfere with their relationship issues as i know that is not my place. She wont leave him because she fears being alone. Because she talks to me about these problems it adds to my worries about everything.
I dont think I will contact social services . I might have a word with someone at the school. I didnt think they would talk to me as i am just the grandparent and have no rights

Definitely agree with glam and grrranny. I can understand your concern that granddaughter had the accident the night before and from what I can gather had not been bathed or had clean underwear put on her before she went to school. It is upsetting but far worse things have happened to children. Could you tell your daughter if she is feeling depressed and unable to cope she can always call on you and that you understand!!

grrrranny Great minds come to mind