DIL problems advice needed

Nanban I cannot give you advice. I can only send my love and warmest wishes for a resolution to the ongoing sadness that you have no control over. Please keep strong. ((hugs))

johanna - marvellous of you to find out so much! I will certainly follow up on the ECHR - if someone out there has taken the trouble to ensure it is included, then there is hope. As for the therapist forum - we, until very recently, didn't know where they were - we have sent packages, letters, messages to our son's last work address; a parcel via a work colleague [who then wanted not to be involved] and nothing ever gets acknowledged. You might, others might, say give up, he obviously doesn't want to know, you must have done something really bad. I promise we have only done good things and the problem lies with the personality of our DiL. We were a small, loving and supportive family who never in our wildest nightmares saw this coming - if I could believe differently, it would make life easier. We did apply to family arbitration/conciliation, but unless they agree, it goes no further. We are convinced that the babies are being used as a weapon between they two - do this or else; who would not sacrifice a parent or two to that. But all guesswork. If only there was a 'legality' [not the right word I know] that gave us rights to access, the weaponry could not exist. The situation would have a basis for improvement.

Sorry, waffled on. And all to say thank you.

Hello nanban.
Well the news is not good I am afraid. There does not seem to be much difference between England and Holland with regard to access for grandparents.
Except for a fairly recent law which states that at the time of divorce when visiting rights are established ,that should also include's grandparents.

When that is not adhered to the grandparents will have to go to court.

I learned something else. In the E.C.H.R there is a children's charter and one of the articles states that every Government has the obligation - this is under the welfare of the child - to see that the child knows all the family, unless there are circumstances which dictate otherwise. ( Very simplistically put ).

Last but not least, I fell into a forum run by a therapist dealing with family matters.
She said: " Grandparents who are denied access must not be passive. Keep sending those cards and presents etc. etc. And whatever else you can do. Do not give in. Ever. "

nanban

Still waiting for e-mails to get back to me.

Thank you all for your kindness and support. When I was living with my daughter I asked her to get help for her addiction but she told me she didn't want to as she liked the way it made her feel. My greatest worry now is for the children as she will use anything she can to make them stay at home and care for her.

Nanban,
I have not followed the access thread on here.
Will try and read it later, and then find out for you what I can.

johanna - I've just picked up that you are from Holland - some searching from friend to friend literally across the globe, and we discover very recently that our son is working in The Hague and most likely wife and children are there somewhere too. What do we do with the information now we have it? Do we go camp out on the office doorstep? Do we send letters, parcels hoping the children get them - we have never had a response to anything sent so far? Are the laws in Holland any different from here with regards to families and access?

P.S greatnan
Should have said : you are coping with it instead of using last tense, and admirably so.

I am so sorry Greatnan for all your troubles. We all think our personal troubles worse than the next but standing helplessly by, whilst someone you love is on a self-destructive path is truly terrible. The only comfort I can offer is that you will always find us all here ready to listen and be true friends.

greatnan
You said that your unconditional love achieved nothing.
You are so right.
When people push the self destruct button, nothing can stop them.
And they will do anything to try and drag those close to them into the abyss.
Their abyss .
The little country which I am originally from- Holland -, have been advising people who have addicts in their family to throw them out. Not that they ( Holland ) know everything.
But even when said addict is only a teen ager , if they do not wish to rehabilitate they have to go. It may seem harsh, but one addict destroys a whole family.
Obviously, you know this, and have coped with it.

Greatnan I think you're brave, your daughter is lucky to have you there still loving her and being ready to help if you can in an appropriate way, even if she doesn't appreciate it at the moment.

Hugs and kind thoughts of sympathy for you Greatnan

& {{hugs}} to all of the grandparents not able to see your DGC or DC for what ever reason. I feel so very lucky and privileged.

My unconditional love for my daughter and three of her children has achieved nothing. She is now asking her daughter and her partner for money although she has a reasonable income. I think all her accusations were just an attempt to get money out of me too but even if I could afford it I would not enable her to buy more drugs. She has started to insist that the two boys at home (28 and 21) pay her some board money. I think they should (one is unemployed but gives her all his JSA, the other is at college but has a weekend job and gives her half). I am hoping they will finally see that she has a serious addiction problem, as her eldest daughter has.
I am afraid addicts have no conscience - they will neglect their children, beg,borrow and steal from their family to buy their drug of choice.
My only hope is that she will reach rock bottom and be hospitalised - otherwise she is going to die or end up in a psychiatric ward or prison.
If she shows the slightest desire to contact me, I will welcome it, but I can't ever give her money now I know what she does with it, so she will still be very angry with me.

Nanban You are so wise. I truly believe that unconditional love will always find a way through a family crisis.

Dreadful, terrible, unbearable but you must never stop grabbing at any straw and keep trying whatever the personal cost. And you son must never believe that his lovely boy doesn't love him, he must continue to love him unconditionally and it must come right in the end.

I can never thank you lovely lot on gransnet for all your loving thoughts and support.

Carol such a mess, I do hope that your DIL can find other ways to sort her life out. She sounds a bit like an addict who has to hit rock bottom before she sees the damage she is doing. I can understand your son finding ways of being out of the house but its probably not the best solution. (Once again easy for others to say). In an ideal world you all need some family councelling. There used to be such services about to help families but suspect what with cuts etc etc. There is an organisation called Home Start that is used to support families with children under 5 going through any sort of problems. I think referals come through HV or Drs. It gives a Mum or a Dad an impartial ear and support to help them through tough times.

Nanban, no I dont suppose you do. Am so sorry.

I think what I find so hard to deal with is the fact she did everything to turn the little boy against his dad and for a while it worked he started to hate his dad and say really nasty things to him. Now he does the same to her so she hasnt gained really. My son took up a hobby at weekends which takes him away from home at least one full day 7 - 7 sometimes both weekend days and I think its probably because he saw it that the little boy didnt love him or want him around. You see my dad did similar to me so we are going way back here - he got custody of me and drummed it in that my mum was bad crackers etc even said she was dead at one point ( she actually had a breakdown probably due to domestic violence from him) I didnt see her for 8years he stopped all access. I hated him for it and always will. And now I can see her doing similar to my little grandson it really gets to me. Why cant adults just fight their own battles instead of using kids as weapons?
I really think I have disliked her since the day she sat here with grandson 18mths telling him over and over again daddys bad daddys spiteful daddys nasty u hate daddy dont u Mummy is your best friend. Me and my daughter didnt comment we were too shocked.

Nanban

I don't function, I get through the days - barely. There is nothing I wouldn't try to find my son and grandchildren, it is all I think about. But I am not Carol and not standing in her shoes so many of us banging on about her having to placate her DiL maybe tough for her.

carol Maybe that was DiLs olive branch. Benefit of the doubt would be my response because of the potential future opportunities. Phone and offer to look after your DGS for her and everyone is a winner. Good luck

Nanban, I think I would jump through any hoop to retain the wonderful relationships I have with both my daughters and my two GC. If I felt that for any moment I would loose it I dont think I would be able to see straight let alone function. You are hardly 'laying it on thick'.
Thankfully, apart from a couple of blips when my elder daughter was younger (and I was more than happy to bite my tongue and wait it out as she sorted herself out - though it was dreadful at the time) I have been blessed. You have every reason to tell us that we should be very careful to treasure what we have. I hope that you find some resolution.

We 'Out in the Cold Grans' may be laying it on a bit thick for Carol - it is so easy to hand out advice but we don't stand in her shoes. Sorry Carol.

My DiL is exactly like that - and my son has never had an affair or done anything else against her!