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young childrens personal hygiene at school

(33 Posts)
mountaingoat Sat 07-Jul-12 20:43:29

My three year old (just) grand-daughter is starting at welsh pre-infants school in September. Her parents were told at the school open day that should she want use the toilet and in the process soil herself the teachers are not allowed to wipe her bottom and put her clean. Her parents would have to be called in from work to do that for her. In the meantime she would have to wait with dirty pants on. I am sorry I feel this is child protection gone mad. I know its because everyone is frightened of being accused of molesting children but surely this is absurd.

Anagram Sat 07-Jul-12 20:53:30

This happened at my GC's infants' school. They were OK (although hadn't really mastered the bottom-wiping to any great degree), but my daughter told me of a little boy who'd had diarrhoea and was left to wait in the toilets for almost half a day until his mother could come and collect him. It's a very bad policy, IMO!

Greatnan Sat 07-Jul-12 21:01:01

Surely it would be simple to get the parents to give a letter of authority to the school when the child started to cover such contingencies.

merlotgran Sat 07-Jul-12 21:12:59

They are CRB checked so doesn't it make you feel that they just don't want to do it in the first place? I can understand the parents being called in for diarrhoea because the child might be feeling unwell but to leave him in the toilets? These are small children who need looking after and that should include caring for them if they have the odd accident.

nanaej Sat 07-Jul-12 21:42:34

That is utter nonsense! There is NO reason why a child should be left in soiled clothes. It is lack of care and bordering on neglect. I have changed soiled children on more than one occasion as a teacher and when a headteacher too! I had some support staff who tried to tell me they couldn't deal with it so I said they would have to reconsider if they were cut out to work in an nursery /infant school!

nanaej Sat 07-Jul-12 21:52:35

I am on a rant now! All staff have to be CRB checked so should be no issues re child's safety. All children, up to end of reception class, are supposed to have a key worker who has particular responsibility for a group of children. Part of this is to develop a positive relationship so a child can feel especially confident with that adult so in any times when personal care is needed that Key Worker should be dealing with the child. If I was to inspect a nursery /playgroup etc and I saw that was the policy they may be struggling to get even a satisfactory grade!!

Greatnan Sun 08-Jul-12 09:49:27

If a parent left a child in soiled clothes for hours they would probably get a visit from a social worker.

Stansgran Sun 08-Jul-12 11:17:10

It seems that teachers are no longer in loco parentis. All children should be our children

Mishap Sun 08-Jul-12 11:23:08

Despair, despair!

JessM Sun 08-Jul-12 11:24:41

These teachers will also have classroom assistants (probably more than one) in a nursery class? So even if they claim that they are only paid to "educate" (as their unions would have it) then no excuse. Employ a non-teacher-unionised someone who has toilet duties on their job description.
3 year olds cannot be expected to be completely clean and dry.
Outrageous policy! [grrr]
Complaining to governors is my suggestion because they are ultimately in charge of such school policies.

JessM Sun 08-Jul-12 13:05:06

i am assuming it is state school. but maybe not. Too posh for poo?

Butternut Sun 08-Jul-12 13:15:44

grin Jess.

I find this relevant at present - in the middle of doing my depistage! The French are very good at rustling you up to do all necessary for preventative medicine.

jeni Sun 08-Jul-12 14:06:27


susiecb Sun 08-Jul-12 14:40:26

This is horrible but I'm not surprised 'elf and saftey gone mad again. How humiliating for the child concerned and faces left on the skin can make it very sore. How in all humanity you wouldn't tidy a child up is beyond me.

pammygran Sun 08-Jul-12 15:46:04

One of my earliest & worst memories is of wetting myself when I was 6 in was at the end of lessons, I was dying for a wee..then the teacher started talking about Harvest Festival!..I can vividly remember the beastly boys in class, laughing & pointing me out..The teacher was marvellous took me to a bathroom washed me, & sent me home with clean Knicks, I did'nt even mind that they were scratchy..This is surely another example of because of a few ghastly paedophiles common sense has gone out of the window!

absentgrana Sun 08-Jul-12 16:14:42

When I was in infant school in the 1950s, Mrs Wise [sic] was termed the school nurse. I have no idea whether she had nursing accreditation, but she wore a white "uniform" and was in charge when children felt sick or had headaches and when accidents happened in the classrooms. I never had need of her services, I'm glad to say, but I do remember that she had supplies of clean underpants and other clothes for when the need arose. What is going on today?

nanaej Sun 08-Jul-12 16:16:46

I get so cross when idiots bring the teaching profession into disrepute!

* Common sense should tell you that you do not leave a child in soiled clothes.
*There are no elf'n safety rules to prevent a child being changed.
*The Head should just direct staff to do this and set up the systems to make it work

Grrr! I am very cross angryangryangry

JessM Sun 08-Jul-12 16:27:54

nanaej - quite rightly - but i have come across teachers refusing other non teaching duties e.g. saying that they were not paid to wheel a TV on a stand from one room to another!

mountaingoat Sun 08-Jul-12 18:38:14

No this is not a private school, this is a state school, and from what I understand this is happening all the time at most infant schools. I think its about time this nonsense was made to stop - through parliament if necessary. Keep the comments coming please.

nanaej Sun 08-Jul-12 19:19:48

I am a 'union' person but I think that sometimes a petty 'jobsworth' attitude undermines the seriousness of the real work of unions to protect workers form exploitation, illegal and unfair practise.

I was fortunate that my teaching staff, all union members, did not resort to that. The staff I had to work on were support staff . It was a 'dinner lady' who tried to lead a revolt and refuse to deal with 'bodily fluids'! I won (on behalf of the kids)

JessM Sun 08-Jul-12 19:35:19

Governors, then definitely, also your local assembly member and your local LA head of children's services. And do you have something like a children's commissioner in Wales? Make a stink grin

vampirequeen Mon 09-Jul-12 12:34:59

This is terrible. I agree that teachers/support staff shouldn't be there for all bottom wiping situations but when a child has had an accident or worse you have to help them. In my time as a lunchtime supervisor/child support assistant/teaching assistant and teacher I have helped children of various ages on several occassions. You can't leave them sitting in it for heavens sake. That's just cruel.

nanaej Mon 09-Jul-12 19:49:34

vamp didn't mean to suggest all support staff unhelpful.. in my case it was just a couple .. all others brill!

POGS Mon 09-Jul-12 20:55:43

This has been the case for years!. My friend left her job as a school classroom assistant years ago when they were told they were no longer to help children with toilet issues nor even cuddle or hold a child if they had fallen over or hurt themselves. She found it too difficult and upsetting to see the little mites struggle, even if they wet themselves they could not help, just give them spare pants and a plastic bag.

We found out my GD helped her friend if she wanted her bottom wiping because the teacher would not help. She is 6 years old. When we told her friends mum what was happening she checked for herself if this was true and it was. This was only last year so nothing has changed for many years, probably got worse. They were taught how to wash their hands well though.

Words just don't cover the stupidity and lack of care these rules have forced teachers to adopt. I am sure teachers hate it, or at least they should in my book.

POGS Mon 09-Jul-12 20:57:32

P.S. This is in England so nothing to do with Wales only.