So called left wingers who pay school fees

Fascinating thread!
@nanaej quite right to point out that less than 10% of population go to independent schools. The picture varies greatly across the UK. In some parts of London, the socio-economic make-up of people living next to the top state schools is 'higher' than that of people living next to the top independent school in other parts of the country. So going to a state school doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get a raw deal and going to an independent school doesn't necessarily mean you're rolling in money - granted, you have to have disposable income, but many scrimp and save to afford it. I can't see how it can be true that independent schools are creaming off the intellectual top - first of all, they aren't all selective and secondly, with only 7% of the school age population in independent schools, it's a statistical impossibility. But something's clearly happening in those schools that translates into progression to university. Someone - sorry can't remember who - posted that what's important about school is having a good socio-economic mix and I agree. I also think the recent call for 'open access' to independent schools is a good thing. It will open up existing independent schools to children from lower income families in a far greater way than offering a few bursaries ever could and, if the Government allow it, it could be a small baby step towards a more egalitarian school system. @baNANA it IS annoying for so-called socialist journalists to turncoat when it comes to their children's education. I understand their motives and don't condemn them, but they are really two-faced if they then continue to spout ideals that fly in the face of their own actions.
Our family was in a similar situation last year and I came across this on Google. It doesn't really add much to the original point of this thread, but it may just be useful to someone out there if you're trying to decide between school types: www.mydaughter.co.uk/educating-your-daughter/7-11/education-choices/independent-vs-state-how-do-i-make-the-most-of-my/
Personally, I find the whole concept of choice in education quite alien. But it's all different now!

Yes Lilygran I started the thread and I agree with your post and would defend anyone's right to send their children to private school, but just don't say you are fundamentally left wing if you do so because it sounds so lame. I also believe in an ideal world we would just have good state education and everyone would subscribe to that, however, clearly that's not the case.

Bags

Well said, lily. Absolutely spot on.

There are good private schools and good state schools. Ditto bad. This thread actually started as a complaint about our elected representatives who make the educational policy which determines the fate of the vast majority of our children and then decide it isn't good enough for their own offspring. If they had no choice, they might make decisions based on more urgent considerations than political ideology. As long as there are fee-paying schools, everyone (except politicians) has a right to pay for their children's education. I believe the same applies to private health care.

Trust me, you would have agreed with me if you had seen the local school.
Remember too nanaej by removing our children from state education we made class numbers smaller and in effect paid for education twice.
If the state education had been up to standard it would never be an issue. DS will probably not send his children to a private school even though he went.

Just because a school is known for a particular subject does not always mean it does not do well in other subjects too!

I accept I am 'hard line' re private education. It's aenathema to me. I have heard all the arguments from teachers, parents and some students too who are in favour of private education but I have not been convinced it is the best for a country /nation.

The state school in our area was known for it's drama and sports not academic subjects. I sent DC to a school with traditional teaching methods and to mix with like minded students. I wasn't trying to be better than anyone else, we just wanted our children to be happy.
I don't accept that bright children will succeed anywhere, I have seen bright kids dumb down so that they fit in with their peers.

harrigran fewer than 10% of children and young people attend private schools. 90% of children are educated in state schools, most of whom are happy and well educated.

I did not pay a penny for my children to be educated in their local schools and they are both high achievers too! Not sure it's always to do with the money you spend!

I don't think private education is that rare, here in the north east our children and those of work colleagues went to good private schools.

Where I have lived with children (Edinburgh, Oxfordshire, Argyll), only a tiny minority of people send their kids to private schools. The vast majority just send them to the nearest state school. I wonder if the seven or eight per cent national average for private school attendance is heavily weighted by London and its environs? I imagine England weights the average more than Scotland or Wales too.

We sent our only daughter to a private school for a very good reason and never regretted the decision as she received a superlative education and went on to be a high achiever. The reason was that we experienced great difficulty in selling our former house and sales fell through while we "bought" houses in different catchment areas and introduced her to three different comprehensives. She became disturbed by all of this and to prevent further problems we chose a private school in the area where we intended to live. Have to say that when I told the headmaster of her current state school of the move he we very sniffy, verging on rude.

I was lucky enough to go to a good old state grammar school with very high values but feel that every penny spent on our daughter's education was a penny well spent and only wish that I could pay for our twin grandsons to be privately educated as it is anyone's guess what sort of school they will be admitted to when it comes to high school.

I also know some parents who let their house and rented another for the 6 month period of application for schools to wangle a place in the school they preferred!

What would be the worst that would happen if tomorrow all private/public /faith/ community schools were all just called 'Learning Centres' and admitted children based on their nearness to school? Would it really be so terrible?

Nanban, Switzerland is hardly known as 'communistic' and yet this is exactly what happens - no choice, and it works really well. That way you don't get 'excellent schools' and 'sink schools' and children learn to grow up in a mixed environment, rich, poor and in-between- which stops stereotypes being formed in childrens' minds and finger pointing. When you grow up in a mixed school, you know right from the start that stereotypes don't apply in 90% of cases - and it really helps society as a whole.

As said, the UK has had such a long tradition of (so-called) 'public', private and religious schools - and I just do not know how this could be addressed now.

Totally agree that the shenanigans and border fraudulent behaviour of many to get their kids into the best of state schools- is in many ways 'worse' than paying for private education. See the example give re my niece on a previous post. I have of course not discussed this with my sil and bil, nor my niece- as it would cause upset, but I just couldn't believe they would take such steps.

My grandparents paid for my brother and me to go to a private school. This was due to the fact that that Dad being in the Forces we had been to a large number of schools. By the time I left full time education I'd been to 19 schools, my brother to 14 schools. You can imagine the effect that had on our education. When my father was posted to Canada my g'parents wanted to send me to a private boarding school but Mum couldn't bear to part with me. I know it sounds awful but I wish I had gone. I did not get on with my father and that made homelife very difficult. Also, I knew that given the chance I would have done very well at school and gone on to university.

Granjura - the problems with parents helping out in schools is the vetting procedure they have to go through here which is costly apart from anything else. Do you have the same rules in Switzerland?

And if people are going to all sorts of lengths to get their children into 'the school of their choice' why is it considered so wrong if some parents also pay? Unless there is absolutely no choice at all, which is rather communistic, there should be no grounds for criticism.

Now that is surprising, granjura! I bet a lot of people wouldn't expect the UK to be anywhere near that low. I suppose the problem is that there are so many places where you couldn't build, as well as places where no one would want to live!

In world density ratings, Switzerland is 52nd and UK 74th.

It's a comment often made, and yet England has huge areas with hardly any population on it. When we lived in East Leics we could drive to Norfolk or to Lincolnshire without coming across any towns at all (apart from going past Peterborough). That of course does not apply to such an extent in the South East.

Here in Switzerland, by comparison, we are much more densely populated, on land suitable for building, as so much land is taken by mountains and lakes - one reason why people tend to live in flats (but generally not high-rise) rather than houses.

I live in the South East I can tell you that we have a shortage of school places and a dire shortage of affordable homes which will get worse as the population grows. We are a small island with a finite amount of space to expand even if we were to have a massive house building programme.

listening to the news tonight and hearing about the shortage of school places, and first choice of school. Tragic.

My niece couldn't get her 'school of choice' for her girls 2 years ago, so her parents bought a flat for her in the catchment area of said school - and she 'pretended' to live there until they got the girls in - then sold the flat and moved back to their own home. Just one example of those that go on - and of course only available to the middle class.

Like Bags, we listened to the children reading at home everyday - not sure anybody ever heard them read at school. It is a very worthwhile thing to volunteer to listen to children at your local school.

We complemented our childrens' education with music lessons (both went to Grade 8 with 2 instruments). Also art and pottery (free courses at our local Teacher training school), studying local wildlife, youth hostelling trips with a fun + study element, etc - always including other children in the neighbourhood that didn't have those opportunitites.

Here in Switzerland we also help with the local primary - with English, and outside actitivities like hiking, skiing, etc. Very worthwhile and rewarding.

I think there's a lot of truth in the post that said often good teachers get demoralised. I don't know what the answer is.

Nanad I have had a similar experience to the one you describe, including visits to head teachers! I've also come across very low expectations on the part of staff, and teachers persuading kids not to apply for Oxbridge or even the Russell group because, so they said, the kids would be happier at the Asda Uni down the road.

My senior GD and her half brother went to a first rate primary school almost on my doorstep. The fact that it was in a prosperous and - dare I say it - middle class area with largely professional/managerial parents might have had something to do with it, of course. Few of the kids in the neighbourhood were sent to any of the private prep schools, and hardly any of my GCs' cohorts went on to private secondary education. The local authority at the time had one of the best records in the NW which meant that there was a remarkably low turnover of teaching staff.