.. to be concerned that my GD has just started school and is one of only four with English as a first language in her group.

Thanks POGS. They all had a great 100th anniversary celebration last week. I saw them all in their various multi-cultural versions of 1912 costume & they looked great. Their teacher had a great straw hat on top of her hijab.

Gadabout

I am really pleased for you all, lovely ending.

I truly hope your GC and all her 'chums' enjoy their school and it does sound as though they all will.

Sounds like the children might possibly have chosen rockets and aliens, maybe after being given the theme of Space!

In case anyone looks at this thread again, I thought I'd tell you what my daughter has done. First, expressing her fears & asking for constructive help was important to clear her way for action. She spoke to the class teacher who has doubled her efforts to ensure the children mix. The school advertised English language class for parents and now appear to have funding for this so they can be free of charge. My daughter has made a point of befriending some parents who are really keen to improve their English.
As grand-daughter is coming home singing 'rum tum tum and a bottle of rum, a sailor's life for me!" I can tell British culture is not being ignored! They are also having an Edwardian day to celebrate the school's 100th anniversary (1912 Edwardian? - suppose it's pre-WW1 so counts). Most importantly GD is happy, learning and loves school. She has made friends with the girl who was free with her pinching and hitting though now says her best friend is Oskar - a boy, so really alien!!!. Talking of aliens, I was somewhat surprised in this PC world that the two groups in the class are called Rockets & Aliens. I do hope Aliens contains a good mix of languages and cultures!
I just wish schools would advertise their good practice so parents have their concerns met and stay put rather than mvoing to more 'English' areas.

I googled to see if there was any research/ good practce guidelines for dealing witht this issue. Only found an article in the Daily Mail (March). It quoted Civitas so I emailed them putting aside my concerns about their possible political bias. They say they advocate the teaching of a solid core curriculum which includes references to British culture, idioms etc
http://www.coreknowledge.org.uk/sequence.php. I found it interesting and what I would expect schools would be doing anyway -can any teachers out there confirm this or not?
I also read that Highbury Grove school in inner London promote the learning of a musical instrument for every pupil as a way of finding a common language amongst their diverse community.

I've just returned form Germany where son & half-German wife live with their baby. Son attended German language courses for a year before he was confident enough to find a job, though this is in a Kiwi company where English is the language used. It will be interesting to see how his son develops as a tri-lingual speaker - he has families/step-family speaking to him in German, French, & English (London & Kiwi accents!).
I would expect him to grow up with German as his natural language & culture enriched by many experiences of his other ancestral cultures & non-European cultures on visits to his London cousins.

Nanaej - you are quite right re use of the word bully - I stand corrected for loose & incorrect use of the term.

A friend's 4-year-old was expelled from nursery school for rowdy behaviour. And I heard of a five-year-old the other day whose parents were told his behaviour was 'unacceptable'. Both boys......

Have just caught up with this thread as been out of loop with work/family stuff for ages!

I have been the teacher in classes that gadabout describes. The younger the children the less language is a barrier! In my experience young children make friends despite the apparent language barriers. The biggest barrier is parental /community/school attitude. I agree with Bags some schools are very skilled at ensuring/supporting all groups of children mix and contribute to school life and are equally valued. In those schools all kids find it easier to grow up confident and able to achieve their potential. In the schools that see such a situation as a 'problem' it becomes a problem! Also re pace of learning ..a good reception classw ill be teaching through practical experience and in small groups so this should mean all ch can make the progress of which they are capable. My DGD1 was happily reading/writing/numerate by the time she left her very multi-lingual reception class and her best friend Tomasz is still greatly missed now she has moved... but they email!

Re bullying in nursery... bullying is a very specific form of behaviour. The child you talk of must have been 3years old at nursery. She may have had poor social development, been unable to communicate, unkind etc etc but I think to label a little child of 3 a bully is extremely sad. Also undermines the term bully which I think should only be used when a child is at a certain stage /level of understanding and is systematically targeting a child or a group of children to undermine them. A 4 yr old child who pinches other children is behaving badly but might not be a bully!

I have an arrangement with one of my neighbours to do half an hour of French for me and half an hour of English for her, once a week. I do speak French quite well, but we focus on things like reading aloud, focused discussions on topics like politics and education and complex sentence structures. I find this helps me get beyond the everday conversations I have with most of the neighbours.
I am not sure about all small children automatically finding languages easy though. My grandchildren in Spain are being brought up with OPOL (one parent one language). The elder one is on the autistic spectrum finds it quite hard and the younger one is by no means bi-lingual at four. My son has to make a real effort and work quite hard at English with them. They have him as a model, us and their cousins on Skype and English television, but everything else is in Spanish. Maybe it will be easier when they are older and get to England more often. Would be interested to know what other grandparents of bilingual children think.

Like it, jess! Good for her.

I think we talk ourselves out if it in the Uk.
In one of the b and bs we stayed in, in the Basque region, the young manager, who it transpired was a retired contemporary dancer, was bilingual in Spanish and Basque. Her French sounded pretty fluent to me - they are only half an hour from the border, so lots of the customers are French. Her English was a darn sight better than my Spanish.
We were entertained though when she was trying to remember some of the menu words (no written down menu - it was a case of what you could cook tonight)
We 'ave the meat of the cow, what's the word? This bit (points to her backside)
Me - "rump steak?"
Or we 'ave pork - points to her waist - "loin?"
or we 'ave the chicken - points to right breast - "ah-ha, breast"

We managed to keep straight faces. Being a dancer of course, she was used to using her body to communicate.

I am not a natural linguist as I have been told that I am tone deaf, so for me it has to be an academic study. I think I once read that the capacity to absorb new languages diminishes rapidly after the age of seven. Some languages, such as Hindi, actually need the tongue to be held differently which is why most immigrants from India never lose their accent.
I have often asked my French neighbours (when I had some!) to correct my French, but they are always too polite.

It is hard for someone like me who loves languages to accept, but it is true that some people just cannot manage to learn another language. This is usually the older generation who have joined their young folk somewhere.

Still, people who emigrate should make a huge effort: it is only the pre-puberty children who are sure to pick up the language around them - the rest of us have to slog through lessons but it is worth it in the end. Even if the job is only short term, it is worth it if only just to have a better chance to enjoy the new place and understand its culture. You can't really separate language from culture - you learn them both together.

The school children are not a worry imho - it is their parents who have to make an effort. I always ask people struggling with English if they would like me to correct then and help them get it right. They are always delighted to have this opportunity: most people assume it is rude to try to help, but it isn't if you ask permission first. Usually, they get the intonation wrong and this is what makes them harder to understand. Help them with this, and they advance a lot faster.

Before a football match between Australia and Croatia some twenty year old children of Croation immigrants were interviewed about the coming match. The interviewer asked them who they would be supporting. One young man said, "we're Aussies, mate, we want Australia to win, but our parents want Croatia to win."

I think it normally only takes a generation for people to assimilate.

I am glad to hear that some companies prepare their staff so well, but I think it might be difficult for some young people to 'pick up' enough of a new language to take exams in it. Many expats, both retired and working, have practically no French at all - there are always posts on ex-pat forums asking for names of English speaking doctors, hairdressers, vets, plumbers, etc. It is the same in Switzerland, although many expats there are actually working for very large companies. People who are on short-term contracts sometimes feel it is not worth learning a new language every time they move, as English is spoken in business in many parts of the world.
And, of course, many expats have found their own jobs or are self-employed, running gites, etc.

When I lived abroad, years ago, I knew quite a few expat families from various places. The husbands (always husbands) working for international companies didn't try to assimilate because as one wife explained to me, they would almost certainly be moved home at short notice or to a different country and it wasn't worth their effort. As far as more permanent immigrants to this country are concerned, I was told in the 1970s by someone who should have known better that the "language problem" was only temporary and would disappear as people became assimilated. In those days there were free English classes for adults which are no longer available.

The holiday company my DS1 worked for sent him to Florence for a crash course in Italian before he went to do a summer season as a club manger in Sardinia. He then got a course in the vernacular from the workmen who were doing pre-season work on the club.

Greatnan - I can assure you that all of the companies I know who send their staff abroad have systems in place so that anyone they move learns the language before they go and then continues with language lessons when they arrive. Although my husband has never worked abroad, he was given top up French lessons in the evening after work (and they were available for all staff, not just those people who had contact with the French). Most recently a friend's son has moved to Paris - he had intensive lessons before he went and he and his wife continued with the lessons when they arrived. Their children, of course, will pick up the language at their international school.

I think the ex-pats who don't speak the language tend to be those people who have retired to a country (although I appreciate it does depend on the people concerned).

It is a good job for some ex-pats to European countries that their hosts don't insist on them speaking the national tongue. English speakers appear to assume that they have a divine right to carry on speaking English no matter where they live!

A young relative of mine went to an east end primary school where, at times, he was the only non-Bangladeshi. He went to a more mixed secondary. He is now in university, seemingly unscathed. He had the benefit of a very enriched middle class background and input from some intelligent and talented family members. There were times when he was short of friends in school, but he has good friendships now.

When we lived in New York there were children in my son's class with parents who hardly spoke, or even spoke, English. This was especially so with the Hispanic parents, who did congregate together and therefore had no need to learn English. Most of the shops in my area, Jackson Heights, insisted their staff also speak Spanish. So where was the incentive. However, their children did speak English and I'm sure their children[son now 36 yrs old] are more American then Hispanic. I'm afraid this is the normal case. The immigrants' children and g/children assimilate fully - hopefully. At my son's school any PTA meeting for all parents had to have a Spanish speaking translator. The other immigrants didn't want this as they wanted to learn English. At no time did I feel that my son suffered due to this huge melting pot of peoples. As an English/Canadian woman living in NY I was always delighted to meet an English person. We had a lot in common. The difference to the immigrant mothers at your GS's school is that of course we spoke English. A lot of English people live in Europe, they usually don't speak the language, their children do though. These childfren seem to thrive and I'm sure your GS will to.

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone from whatever ethnic and cultural background was proud of being British first and foremost? Can't we rejoice in our heritage and roots are but embrace being British? This means respecting the British way of life and customs and speaking English. Inclusivity. I often hear mothers chatting away in Portuguese or Chinese to each other but whatever their ethnic background all the children around here speak Norfolk English.

I'm in Germany (with half-German grandson who attends an intenational nursery) so have only just caught up with comments to my issue, for which I thank everyone, especially those with constructive suggestions & who really understand the issue.

They have been particularly helpful as a testing ground for how best to frame the questions about a sensitive issue that I feel needs to be raised in a way that does not attract extremist factions or quick judgments & assumptions about the people raising the issue e.g. they are racist, anti-other cultures & religions etc.
The main reason (beyond our individual concerns) why I feel the issue needs to be openly discussed is that many who can afford it or are able to move do so before their children start school, or engage in strategies such as going to church so that there kids can get into schools where there will be others who speak English. The result is increased segregation as described in a recent BBC report which said English schools are the most segregated in Europe.

A couple of points re the responses: Treeman - Get real! Since when did parents in many areas have real choice about where to send their kids. Nor can you know the exact make-up of the class until they start school. Daughter's friend got none of their 6 choices & went back to live with her parents in Northumbria. As it happens, my D & SiL chose this school as it was the best of the ones they had any chance of getting into & it did well by the kids of diverse cultures in their care. However, they too seem to be taken by surprise at the rapidity of cultural changes in the area which have led to two dominant groups of recent arrivals who make friends out of school so of course socialise with each other within in their native tongues. Governments did not foresee, and then did not prepare for, arrivals from the extended EC & subsequent rapid increase in birth rate. These kids are now of school age & I'm not sure the money is there to deal properly with the language issues.

A question keeping my brain active: Does someone in England have a right to have an 'English' education & what is that anyway, or at least to have their own culture given as much or more time as others without resorting to French style strategies like banning forms of 'non-French' dress? I think the Olympics opening ceremony was a wonderful metaphor for not denying our English heritage as a base for integration and openness to all for which I feel immensely proud about our British, especially London, culture.

And no, my D & SiL are not racist or anti-foreigner in the least - their childrens' cousins are from a variety of cultures & religions. SiL is 2nd gen immigrant stock & had an awful time at school as a minority in both the English culture & his school culture in Brixton. I believe they have the right to raise concerns about how their child (who already knows Polish songs & words from nursery) will be helped to learn about her English roots as well as others. It will be interesting to see which other cultures are ncluded & which are excluded.

Ladymo,.. I think parents find it easy to discriminate when they think their children are affected!

We do need to intergrate now and I think it is the children that will show the way. The situation at that school will just need watching. If the indiginous English do not suffer then they will eventually show us the way to deal with it all. I wonder if the parents that have complained about your G C, maxgran,have been reminded of the discrimination laws also.