Mental Health

Anybody trying to get help from East Kent has my sympathy. My daughter was almost killed by one of the senior consultants at the Kent and Canterbury and it transpires he had 75 complaints against him, dating back to well before her operation. I am a member of an organisation for whistle-blowers and some of the persecution to which they are subjected, in both the public and private sectors, is truly shocking and inhuman.

I am in the position of a mother whose daughter is obviously very ill but won't face the fact, so there is nothing I can do except wait for the dreaded phone call. I am not blaming the local mental health service - unless she is sectioned or asks for help there is nothing they can do either.

It's across the country. MH has always been the poor relation but now it's worse than ever.

Last week I was suicidal and kept alive by my husband and friends on a MH website.

This weekend we've been trying to keep another member alive. With gentle pushing from us she went to see an out of hours doctor last Thursday. He told her to contact the Crisis Team. They told her she needed diazapam and to go back to the out of hours doctor. So she went back and he gave her some.

She spent Friday spaced out because of the diazapam. By Friday night she was desperate again so she phoned the Crisis Team to find the number was answered by a machine saying there was no one available and they would phone her back the next day. They didn't. Fortunately she was online with us at the same time.

Saturday she was very ill so we persuaded her to go to A and E as they have a duty psych team. She waited a long time but was eventually seen by someone who told her to keep taking the diazapam and........contact the Crisis Team.

Yesterday we kept her going and are hoping that today she will have gone to see her GP so at least he knows that she's got diazapam and can check her sh wounds.

Hi isthisallthereis It wasn't local to me, as my daughter lives in central London, and we are talking about one of the capital's main hospitals!!
I have however made sure an enquiry will be undertaken, and they have shown genuine concern, which is something I guess.
I would also advise getting very vocal on Twitter, if you can. There isn't a company, corporation or institution in the world that doesn't respond very quickly to well-constructed and genuine negative tweets. They hate it! You may be surprised at the power of Twitter if you're not a social media person, but in my experience, it works every time (I've used it to get results both here and in the Middle East when I lived there. Never fails!)

Nightowl, thank you for the IMHA idea. I'd thought of it here, but I feel that contact with the cr@ppy system would just be too much for me. Especially the complacency of the powers that be. They don't seem to want to change. I'll plug away at my contact with the local MP, who does seem concerned and is in a position to do something (it's her job ffs!)

NannaAnna. Truly horrible experience. If nothing else, write to your local paper and to your MP?

vampirequeen it is a national disgrace. On this occasion, my daughter had been admitted after an overdose. The waiting time for counselling is one year!!! She was on the ward for 6 days before being even seen by a doctor! In the end she was discharged without even seeing anyone from the community team because no-one was available. The 'official' explanation for all of these unacceptable delays was "there are too many patients here" ???
My complaints centred around the theft of possessions on the ward (not just my daughter's possessions) and the totally disgusting "we don't give a damn, p*ss off" attitude of the staff.
I was genuinely shocked.

vq that's awful. Can they not review your progress (or lack of it) and work out a fresh plan to help you?

I see MH services from the other side as a patient and tbh in this area they're rubbish. Amongst other issues I have agoraphobia which means I can't get to my appointments because I can't leave the house. There is no system in place for them to come to me.

I'm in a Catch 22 situation and to be frank they don't give a damn. They'd like to discharge me but they can't because I'm doing my best to cooperate. They don't want to refer me on because that means they don't tick the right box on their targets. My GP is trying to get me an appointment with a psych but the system doesn't really allow for that.

On 14th November I won't have left the house alone for a year. Thank God for my husband, ASDA home deliveries and the internet.

NannaAnna I work as a mental health worker (not in a mental health team) but I have also been in the position of negotiating services for someone very close to me, and I share your frustration. In the course of three days we went from a point where my loved one was offered admission for his own safety, to outpatient support from the crisis team, to being told he did not need support. He was actively suicidal. The treatment he received from this psychiatrist made him feel worthless. My own qualifications and experience did not help me at all, only resulted I'm me being patronised. I made my feelings clear but that is no comfort for the fact that my relative was let down and abandoned.

My own recent experiences with mental health services and provision have been truly shocking and depressing. I'm not going into detail because instance 1) concerns my eldest daughter, and instance 2) concerns work. All I will say is that I've encountered things that have made me very, very angry, and that takes some doing! I really hate how so many people working in mental health just don't seem to give a damn, and really should not be working with vulnerable people. (Please don't jump on me if you are a genuine caring human being working in mental health. I do know you exist, but unfortunately there are just not enough of you.)
Fortunately for my daughter, I am an intelligent and articulate person who, when roused, goes into superhuman mode and achieves results others have failed to get even close to!!! Sadly, I can't do more for other patients experiencing the same conditions, but believe me, I have made my feelings known in the right places and an investigation is being launched.
As to the incident I witnessed at work, the police (as previous posters have also noted) were the ones pushing. The mental health team were following through, but it was the professional with regular contact with this patient who was being a total *rse hole!!!

I am totally frustrated with the system, but I do have a great deal of sympathy for many of those who are stuck on the front line trying to administer it with too few staff and too few resources. The CPN in this instance is, I believe, newly qualified and although I suspect she's being micro-managed by her line manager I don't believe she should have been given such a complex 'case' in the first place; particularly as she is only part-time.

Such a shame that our services are crumbling in this way. There is far too much passing the buck. There are gems of CPNs though - I have worked with them and am filled with admiration.

Can I just say a word for the Community Psychiatric Nurses. My experience has only been with these in relation to the elderly. In East Kent when the Psychiatrist from Hell was threatening to discharge my uncle from hospital and dump him outside his front door if I did not take him back to my home in Oxfordshire. It was the CPN who reassured me that that was an empty threat and no discharge was possible without his agreement and that wouldnt be until a satisfactory care home place had been found. He suggested suitable homes and my uncle spent six happy years in his care home before he died

Locally, with an aunt & uncle, after being abandoned by social services and refused a re-admittance to hospital it was the CPNs who visited and were the first officials to agree with what I had told both SS and hospital, that my relations, both with dementia and physical problems, were a danger to themselves and each other if left alone at home and needed to go into a care home. It kicked SS into action and while my uncle has since died his widow is still contentedly living in her care home.

allthereis that is so sad. My son is also nearing 40 and so I can feel for you. Happily he has no such problems as your dear son though he's been through a terrible loss. Life is such a lottery isn't it.
grannya and isthisall ((((hugs))))

isthisallthereis have you thought of becoming an IMHA (independent mental health advocate). Their role is to ensure that patients receive their full rights and have their views heard. You would be given training and it is a very valuable role, with too few applicants. People like you, with personal experience and life experience would be ideal!

I do feel for you ga. I think you have said before that your relatives nearest relative under the MH Act is his brother, who also has mental health issues. I don't know whether you have been able to explore the possibility of getting him 'displaced' through the Court. One of the grounds (as you probably know) is that the nearest relative is 'incapable of acting as such by reason of mental disorder or other illness'. Another relative or friend can then be appointed. Of course your relative (the one you are concerned about) has the right to object to this process. It would be the AMHP in the mental health team who would make this application.

I believe you are right when about high risk overriding confidentiality; unfortunately when someone is discharged from a section they are, by definition, no longer seen as high risk so the usual restrictions on confidentiality apply.

It is heartbreaking to read about people's experiences all across the country.

Such a tragedy ga. I hope all is not lost. To see people deteriorate for lack of support and specialist knowledge is criminal. So many seriously mentally ill people need a high level of support and aren't getting it

I know the feeling granny act. I just grieve. I thought of doing some voluntary work in the MH field now that I'm retired but I'm not really qualified and I fear I'd just get too upset and involved to no purpose. So I stick with my garden and cooking!

to all for your comments. This situation has been ongoing for years, but every now and again things are so bad I can't imagine how we'll be able to move forward - and I'm grieving for the loss of the lovely young man who I feel is now finally lost to us.

Jesus, this thread makes depressing reading!

Two fragments from experience.

My bipolar son, now nearing age 40, has just about got by with services in London. His hospital treatment has been OK. Though when he was first diagnosed the wards were pretty scary. They're now much better run and in much better, new buildings. That's when he has to be taken into hospital. Most of the time, he's living independently. Provision of a flat, and he's not an easy person to deal with, has been good. But the CPN care and crisis team are erratic, and the staff seem to be ever-changing. As others have said, this business of 'confidentiality' being an excuse to slam the door on family and especially parents, badly needs to be sorted out. Services should be working with families shouldn't they, for the best result.

Here, in Leicester, the Mental Health inpatient wards are lethal, high death rates, complacent and appalling. The local newspaper and a local MP are both trying in their different ways to get things improved. So far, some new buildings have been built, which is good. But the management systems and bosses inside the buildings are unchanged. And that's dreadful.

The one Leicester CPN I know is superb, but he swears and shrugs re the system above him all the time. He seems to do good, reliable work despite the system, not helped and sustained by the system. But he is an ex-soldier, so maybe he learned how then!

Sorry * grannya* if you were a social worker you'll know how the system works....or rather doesn't. I didn't mean to sound patronising. I used to say all those years go, there is no such thing as a mental health service in this country. Nothing has changed by the sound of it.

ga I'm not an expert here. nightowl might be able to say more. The guidance we had in our MH training about risk of harm with seriously mentally ill patients is that high risk overrides confidentiality, and families/carers with some immediate responsibility for the patient could be given a certain level of information in order to manage risk.

grannyactivist (This is my very cynical view of the situation but I do think there is some truth in it.)

Unfortunately I am not in the least surprised at this! The idea of treating those with mental illness in the community sounds wonderful, until you realise that in management terms this is really a way to cut costs and that means less beds in hospital. These are still needed for those in a crisis who feel so ill they need a sanctuary and some security.

There is a possible Catch 22 here. If you feel you are unwell and ask to go into hospital, you obviously have insight into your illness so they cannot legally section you. Then your actual chances of getting a bed are much less likely as what fewer beds are available have to be given to those on a section. It is small wonder that a sick patient has to create mayhem to get a bed.

I used to work alongside a group of MH social work practioners up until ten years ago and this lack of bed space and too early release was a problem then. Those teams and rescources have since been cut to the bone.

I hope something works out for your relative.

My concerns for his - and others' - safety is on record with the police and with the CMHT; I have also written to the GP. I was an experienced social worker with a very good understanding of how to access services, but if the services don't exist, or are stretched beyond breaking point, it's impossible to actually get help before a crisis is reached. And even in a crisis the scope for getting ongoing resources is severely restricted.

I really do feel for people who are not knowledgeable or articulate or resourceful - and yet are dealing with the mental health services, trying to get help for themselves or others. How on earth do they manage?

We're not blood relatives, though he has been with the family for forty of his forty two years, and because he's paranoid he won't give the CPN 'permission' to speak to us. The CPN doesn't seem to understand what confidentiality actually means when. She refuses to give us ANY information at all; she seems to be afraid to talk to me and is being micro-managed by her supervisor - she's worried about every word she utters in case she gets ticked off by her boss. She works part-time in a team that is permanently under-staffed and under-resourced; she's new to the job and I suspect she may even be newly qualified.