to find the witch hunt against Starbucks, Amazon, Google etc laughable

I wasn't sure, given the emoticon.

JessM, there's an interesting article in the Guardian today, about why the soaps do not discuss politics.

Sel, I have just looked at the Starbucks website. To quote,
"Starbucks believes that conducting business ethically and striving to do the right thing are vital to the success of the company."

"(We) recognise that fiscal responsibility is essential to our environmental future."

Now that's what I call laughable.

Jen I couldn't agree more - much the same meaningless twaddle as most company mission statements.

anno rest easy, calling Donald Trump the benign face of capitalism was a vain attempt at a joke. I'll be in New York tomorrow - I could pop into Trump Towers and tell ol' Donald he has the ladies of Gransnet all a flutter

Gimme a break absent I am as arty as the next scientist or grandmother. Renaissance Nana me. I think you will find that many scientists enjoy the arts in one form or another.
I should have used the term "the media" probably as I don't really think the depiction of business in art galleries and operas is a major concern.
The only point I was trying to make is that arts graduates dominate politics and the media. They do not tend to understand science and many of them do not understand business either. In mass media you rarely see positive images people running businesses. Or scientists either who are either geeks or evil.
But without science and science-based business this country will go down the pan. Or have a wonderful future as a holiday resort for Chinese tourists.
(yes the soaps are a strange parallel universe aren't they in which there is no politics, and the weather is often different. And you don't mention the elephant in the room. Kate Aldridge -daughter of wealthy farming family - falls for a black south african man and has little brown babies. Nobody, but nobody in the village even mentions his colour. And while this would be unremarkable in a city, you're telling me it would not be news in a village? )

Does The Archers really counts as "the Arts"?

JessM Politics and the media are different from the Arts – so we are having a violent agreement.

It's no good asking me about The Archers or blaming me for not mentioning elephants. I assume that Kate Aldridge is some character in that soap as you mention a farming family and I think The Archers is about farming (or is that the television one that begins with an E?). I have never listened to it or indeed watched any of the soaps on television.

Yes I used the wrong word - but arguably TV and radio drama and films are part of the arts. Tem 'media' is more about news these days?
I blame you not dear absent nor do I pick a fight. I admire your record on not watching soaps. Not even a hospital drama? (a soap by any other name would include hand gel dispensers)

JessM I might have seen an episode of Dr Kildare when staying with a schoolfriend, but I can't be sure. Probably the reason I don't watch/listen to soaps is that I can't follow them – I can't even work out the "plots" of advertisements. P.s. I like the pun.

Although I hesitate to become embroiled in the jess- absent love-in, I seem to remember that ironically, the Archers was started just after the war to promote a positive image of agriculture and the farming community.
I was forced to listen to the Archers as a child, when no-one was allowed to speak during the entire programme.
But my sentiments were the same as those of the author of the following poem, which appeared after Grace's demise in a fire:
Grace Archer
Has made her departure.
What a boon
May the rest follow soon.
Sorry for trivialising the thread

jane i all so was forced to listen to the archers as a child thats all a can say xx

I have watched Coronation street from the first episode, apart from the years I spent in Monaco and Brussels when I didn't have TV. I have watched Emmerdale since it was Emmerdale Farm. I am loving 'I'm a Celebrity' - such a good experiment in social bonding, as the ten are divided into two groups at random and become hostile to the other group.
Should I be apologising for my low taste? I am sometimes reminded of the early days of TV, when 'high brows' would claim 'Of course we don't watch the goggle box, but we have to have one for the au pair'. Yeah........

Of course soap operas are not like real life - they would be pretty boring if they were. Over the years, they have produced some great actors, particularly child actors, and they have tackled very serious issues -rape, adultery, infertility, serious illness, euthanasia, sexuality, motherhood....

If only The Archers could employ some child actors from the same agency as the soaps - it is remarkable how all the children speak with RADA accents even when their parents speak pure 'Borsetshire'. The most irritating is Pip, who still speaks like a ten year old.

When my TV was out of commission last week I managed to follow my favourite programmes on my laptop, but I missed the wildlife and travel programmes - they are not the same on the small screen. I watch a huge range of programmes, including science and politics and I listen to Radio 4. I think I am reasonably intelligent and well-educated and I refuse to be put down by the TV fascists.

greatnan well said .

Greatnan I hope you're not accusing me of being a TV fascist. I don't like the physical sensation of watching a television screen although I have no problem with a computer monitor. Consequently, it has to be something I really want to watch before I'll switch the television on. I have no doubt that there have been/are excellent actors and dramatic story lines in soaps and I know that loads of people enjoy them every week/day depending on the frequency of the broadcast. However, I am not interested. In the years when I lived on my own and didn't have a television, I used to adopt a neutral tone in water cooler conversations when a TV programme became the topic. Even so, people would bristle and say things like "Well we only watch the wildlife programmes/news/ documentaries/ Panorama" when they quite plainly didn't and I didn't care what they watched. It was/is none of my business.

No, absent, of course not. I am quite happy for people to choose not to have a TV, or watch certain programmes. I just don't want anyone to imply that anyone else must be less 'cultured' because they do choose to watch it.
I was not thinking of anybody on Gransnet, but I have been in groups of women where some were trying to prove their intellectual superiority by saying they would not watch certain programmes. I can't be the only person who has come across this.
My daughter has never watched much TV and so she is not missing it in NZ (the programmes there are pretty limited) but then she does not live on her own in a non-English speaking country!

I designed a module for my Access students called 'Soaps and Society' for which I had to watch a lot of the said soaps, with the exception of Emmerdale - well, I had to eat sometimes. My sister was sniffy about Corrie until she came to stay with me for a few days. Now she and her husband are hooked and I have given up watching it. I finally got tired of it and have never enjoyed East Enders - nothing good ever happens in the Square. What I do still miss is Brookside, the one with the highest body count of all and plenty of controversial lines - the first on-screen lesbian kiss; incestuous relationship and so on. But there was always humour too. How can I ever forget the last scene of the last episode when Jimmy got out of the car and added a 'D' to the sign 'Brookside Close'?
I also enjoyed The Bill and could never quite fathom why it was taken off. Cops and Docs - that's more my scene now - rarely miss Holby or Casualty, though the NHS wouldn't recognise either of them!
And how did the OP transmogrify into this discussion of popular culture?

We got here via a suggestion that there are no young entrepreneurs on soaps!
Coronation Street has produced some great comic characters, along with pure pathos. I remember Hilda Ogden crying when she looked at Stan's glasses after his death. Shakespearean, even!
I can't abide Eastenders - horrible accents, doom, gloom and no humour.

Thanks for the reminder, Greatnan.

But some of them do run businesses - pub, cafe, market stall etc, I seem to recall. So in that respect, as in the Archers, they do represent a bit of the entertainment industry (note trial new terminology) in which "ordinary" people do make their living in this way.

Young Chesney (great actor) has been selling dog leads, etc. from a stall.
At least the soaps are reflecting the reality of high unemployment, both in towns and rural areas.

Except for the fact that all the characters in Coronation Street seem to be able to afford to have their teeth whitened and have fake tans (especially Deirdre!). Sorry to digress, but it really bugs me. I watched a bit of the 'Deirdre' documentary last night and noticed all the actors in the early days had 'normal' to 'dodgy' teeth!

You have to suspend disbelief a little, Ana. I don't suppose the producers can stop actors wanting to look their best.
What is really unbelievable, is the way the factory workers can afford to buy a round of drinks. I think the cost of a couple of beers and a g & t would be about £10! And would Emily be sinking the sweet sherry as she is a devout Methodist? And nobody discusses what is on TV, or in the news!
You can add the fact that the entire cast turns out for every wedding, Christening and funeral. And no relations except those already in the script!

I didn't say soaps were realistic - just damned entertaining!

I gave up listening to the Archers when I could no longer distinguish between the younger ones who still all sound like they are in their teens.
"I'm a Celebrity " sounds like Lord of the Flies, Greatnan.

Yes, Lord of the Flies crossed my mind too. It is amazing how the two groups bonded between themselves, after two days, and regarded 'the others' as the enemy. Of course the show is carefully set up to engender this enmity as only one group can win a proper meal each night. Now the two groups are united and no doubt the previous feelings will be forgotten.
There are three 'victims' so far, Helen, who cries a lot, Hugo, the posh boy, and Nadine, the AWOL MP. The public may keep them in the show, just for the pleasure of seeing them suffer. There is a girl from some band who is virtually invisible and will probably go soon.
So far, Nadine has not been able to do much politicising!

I could watch David Haye for a long time...he comes over as being a rather nice man as well.

Those in charge engineer conflict and then edit it to exaggerate this aspect. Nasty stuff I think. Legitimises bullying.
In this house our nomination for the most unrealistic TV drama is Monroe!!! Lovely cast but...

1. They only seem to do cardiac surgery and neurosurgery in their hospital
2. The neurosurgeon does not appear to think he is god (some doctors said to me once that while they think they are god, neurosurgeons know they are god!)
3. The hospital is strangely deserted. Shots in the "ward" always zoom into one bed, never show any extras lounging around in other beds. Corridors and waiting areas have an abandoned air.
4. And they have a senior manager in charge of being nice and kind to patients (she has been brought in as the love interest). We wish.