Gransnet forums


What would YOU do?

(95 Posts)
Ladyblue Tue 01-Oct-13 23:15:08

About 4 weeks ago I had an email from my SIL accusing me of being unkind to my Granddaughter - she had told me she was looking for a job and I asked how it was going - absolutely nothing more!!! I was totally shocked as I had no idea what he was talking about, he then said to just forget it!! I was terribly hurt by the tone of the email and politely suggested to him that before he takes it into his head to chastise me like a naughtly child to check his facts first (actually ASK her what I had said!) He knew how much he had hurt me but rather than apologise he "unfriended" me on Facebook and behaved like nothing had gone on.
My DD tells me that it was nothing to do with her, she wasn't there! Now - am I being silly here - but if I knew that my husband had hurt my mothers feelings I would want to know EVERY detail of what happened! Now she in turn is treating me like a naughtly child and gave me a real mouthful when I asked her if she's OK the other day - she seemed strained at a family gathering. I was then told that I was saying she looked crap (had told her she looked lovely)...........I can't read this situation..............what does it look like from outside? I have got to the state where I no longer want to take this treatment from them and feel maybe it's time to step back.

Deedaa Tue 01-Oct-13 23:19:29

It sound's as if it's them having the problem - but what the problem is is anyone's guess. I think it probably is time to step back for a while and just see how things are going. Do you have other children you can talk to? They might have an idea of where this is really going?

j08 Tue 01-Oct-13 23:26:57

Sometimes all these strange email centred problems seem to morph into one. confused

Anne58 Wed 02-Oct-13 00:39:40

The curse of Facebook strikes again!

FlicketyB Wed 02-Oct-13 06:31:21

I agree with Deedaa. I think your DD and SiL are having problems of some kind, possibly ones they do not want to admit to, even to themselves, so it is easier to blame any tensions in the family on a total misinterpretation of anything anybody else says, however innocent.

I think your approach is absolutely right, step back, be friendly, but wary - and if you can talk it over with another member of the family, particularly any other children you may have. they frequently have insights into a sibling's life that parents do not have.

glammanana Wed 02-Oct-13 08:16:51

phoenix seconded here re facebook,when ever things are not going a certain way people stamp their feet and press the unfriend button instead of dealing with the problem face on.
It sounds like your SIL has the wrong end of the stick ladyblue and I would also advise to step back a bit and let them sort out what seems to be a problem they may be having between themselves,can DGD not through any light on why her father told you that you where being unkind ? take care .

Greatnan Wed 02-Oct-13 08:41:14

Before my daughter cut me off completely, she berated me for innocently asking her son how his job search was going. Apparently, if you do that you are bullying them and destroying their self confidence. I love him dearly and had taken him for many interviews as he doesn't drive and I had shared his disappointment when he failed to get a job. Perhaps your totally reasonable enquiry to your grand-daughter was viewed in the same way.
The fact that your daughter has not found out exactly what has happened does suggest that there are tensions between her and her husband, which are probably nothing to do with you at all.

LizG Wed 02-Oct-13 08:43:21

Computers and mobile 'phones must be the biggest cause of relationship breakdowns. This must be very upsetting for you. I agree with Deedaa try and take a step back and allow things to cool. My daughter has a habit of sending quite evil texts when she doesn't agree with what someone has done. Now we just let her cool down and she usually acts as though nothing has happened. But it is very difficult.

KatyK Wed 02-Oct-13 10:11:59

I agree that it sounds as though your DD and SIL are having problems themselves. I can see the attraction for some people of Facebook etc. I have taken myself off it after seeing stuff that upset me. Rather than getting upset I just deleted my account, not worth it. Texting and emails (although I do them both) can lead to people getting the wrong end of the stick. It has happened to me several times. Oh for lovely long face to face conversations (which I do have obviously, but really only with folks of my own generation).

maxgran Wed 02-Oct-13 11:19:53

Are they all mad? I would demand to know why they were making things up and tell them in no uncertain terms to grow up!
I don't know why you are upset - I would be angry!

Tegan Wed 02-Oct-13 11:43:36

I think that approach would cause a total breakdown in the relationship, especially when someone is trying to find fault where it doesn't exist. Treading on eggshells time at the moment, methinks sad.

maxgran Wed 02-Oct-13 12:56:25

I wouldn't want a relationship with someone who is so totally out of order.
If you tread on eggshells - you find that you spend forever having to do just that.
I find people people treat you the way you allow them to treat you so I wouldn't be tiptoeing around them when they think my feelings are worthless!

Aka Wed 02-Oct-13 13:13:40

I got fed up of treading on eggshells around my DD too. I decided to just cut her out of my personal space. I never asked her how she was doing, never discussed what the GC had been doing when I dropped them off at night, treated her politely but distantly. I never acknowledged any unkind remark she made, never entered into discussion with her, never talked about my life or enquired about hers. This was three years ago. You could say I ended my relationship with her Maxgran.
But it did work. Eventually she caught on and started making approaches to rebuild the relationship. I've not made it easy for her as she had lost my trust, but gradually since then we have an improving 'adult' relationship.

maxgran Wed 02-Oct-13 14:05:39

I would never WANT to fall out with my daughter but if she insisted on being ridiculous and claimed I said something or implied something that I did not, then I would not be 'treading carefully'
We do actually have lots of arguments and tiffs but we never carry them on and we do both speak our minds. I KNOW if I have been unfair and when I calm down I apologise and I expect the same from my DD

I suppose everyone is different but I just could not allow my own DD or DS to disrespect me like that.

thatbags Wed 02-Oct-13 14:05:48

I agree with maxgran. Bugger eggshells!

Grannylin Wed 02-Oct-13 14:13:17

Me too.Tell it like it is.We have a family saying invented by DD1 when constant squabbles went on between the 4 siblings : Never not friends for long. It

Tegan Wed 02-Oct-13 14:22:27

But surely if, someone is spoiling for a fight, helping to fuel it is playing into their hands so they can then put the blame on you? [that's my way of thinking, especially after losing contact with my grandchildren after one unguarded outburst; and I never want to go through that again sad].

janthea Wed 02-Oct-13 14:42:27

My sister has not spoken to me or my family in three years. It was all over some misundersanding and she took it the wrong way. She went completely overboard lashing out at us, dragging up things from when we were children (I was the favourite!! Not true). She dragged her sons into it. It was a truly horrible time. My sister is never wrong!! It's everyone else's fault - not hers.

I hate it. In fact DD1 and I were wondering whether to write a letter to get things of our chest and see where it takes us. If we sent an email, she would fire off yet another offensive email in reply. If it's a real letter, she might actually think about what she is saying. sad

j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 14:53:59

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 14:55:20

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 15:11:05

should read 'son in law' not 'dominate'

maxgran Wed 02-Oct-13 15:22:31


Its not about fuelling it.
You don't have to have a massive bust up or go mad - Its just that you do not have to tread on eggshells around people if THEY decide to cause trouble.

It depends on the situation really and if you have family who would deny you access to your Grandchildren because of a fall out you have with them then you do have a problem. I would remind my children that they should not use their children as a weapon to punish me - Its not fair on anyone, least of all the children.
Even if my children DID use my Grandchildren in this way - I would not be blackmailed by that. It surprises me how often I have read on Gransnet that children do this to the Grandparents.
What sort of people have they raised for goodness sake!

Tegan Wed 02-Oct-13 16:07:32

I actually raised the most amazing kids I could have hoped for; socially aware, kind, courteous and hard working, but an aggresive comment from me at a time when one of them was under a great deal of stress caused a complete breakdown. All families and all people are different, as are all situations and sometimes it's best to tread on eggshells [sometimes it isn't; only we can judge that by knowing the people concerned]. I do think Facebook, emails and text messages have put a lot of strain on people in many ways though, and I wonder what social historians will make of it in the future.

petallus Wed 02-Oct-13 16:12:47

I agree with that Tegan

Would just say, though, that e-mail and text is also a great help to relationships at times. So much easier to put it all in writing, send it and then let the other person read it at their leisure, think about it and respond when they are ready.

Less pressured than a phone call or face-to-face conversation.

I also find e-mail communication has deepened the relationship with one of my DD.

Tegan Wed 02-Oct-13 16:16:49

Yes; it was an email that broke the ice with my daughter when I didn't have the courage to phone or visit [although waiting for a reply was sheer torture].

Stansgran Wed 02-Oct-13 16:19:10

Do the Mums on Mumsnet agonise about the relationships that there are between their DCs and their DPs or DPILs? Somehow I doubt it. I do think Facebook is a danger zone from what I've heard. I have a rule to go on line only with a pot of tea at my side or a bottle of wine at hand.

Aka Wed 02-Oct-13 16:26:24

Maxgran I did not want to fall out with my daughter and I didn't. I just removed myself emotionally from her verbal barbs and put up a wall between us until such time as she could learn to conduct herself in a manner conducive to harmony and respect. The way she behaved towards other people in fact, but seemed to think it was OK to treat her mother differently.
As I said, it has worked. Throughout it I continued to love her, but there had come a point where I didn't actually like her very much.

Ladyblue Wed 02-Oct-13 16:44:55

Thank you - sorry you saw it as whining J08 - needed to get it off my chest - I'll work it out - haven't experienced anything like this before and wasn't sure how to handle it...............for the kind comments - I thank you. For J08 - I will leave this forum so as not to bother you again with my whines!

janthea Wed 02-Oct-13 16:46:20

Ladyblue Please don't leave. Most of us are very supportive to other members.

JessM Wed 02-Oct-13 17:00:02

JO8 is our resident sprite.

Ladyblue Wed 02-Oct-13 17:02:07

Sprite or Spite - not my sort of person I'm afraid!

janeainsworth Wed 02-Oct-13 17:14:03

j08 perhaps you could tell us all why you find it necessary to be so spiteful to a new poster?

BAnanas Wed 02-Oct-13 17:16:00

Ladyblue just wanted to say have read the thread and absolutely don't think you are whining at all, we have all used GN as a sounding board for problems we have had from time to time. Two very good reasons for logging on to GN, to get problems off our chests and secondly to draw on others' experience with similar situations.

I kind of agree with JO8 about Facebook, possibly this is a bit old fashioned in this day and age, but having seen some of the rubbish that "the younger generation" put out there for public consumption, I rather feel ignorance is bliss. I perceive many of that generation tend to live in the "now" more than we do and don't always give a lot of thought to just what they fire off and how it will be received.

merlotgran Wed 02-Oct-13 17:16:47

Ladyblue. I have only just read this thread and J08's comments are obviously not what you wanted to read. If you leave the thread you are just demonstrating to those who have offered you support that you are easily riled. There are two sides to every story and maybe your family are not wholly to blame for the unpleasantness.

Does flouncing off ever get anyone anywhere?

MiceElf Wed 02-Oct-13 17:19:13

Ladyblue, you are right to be disgusted by that comment. I am too and I'm sure that most people on this forum would agree with me.

Unkind, spiteful comments such as that give a totally false impression of members here, sadly, they appear when least expected. Please ignore it and do stay.

Greatnan Wed 02-Oct-13 17:42:43

Jingle, I find your reply rude, unwelcoming, cruel and offensive.
Please don't leave, Ladyblue - most of us are kind and supportive.
Merlot, you are wrong. There are not always two sides to every question and I think it is unfair to suggest that there are.

baubles Wed 02-Oct-13 17:43:04

Ladyblue please don't leave because of one person. The majority of posters are kind and supportive, Gnet is a comforting place when needed.

It can be difficult to ignore unkindness in real life and on here. Please stay flowers

j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 17:45:59

How is your other problem going ladylike? The one in your other post on Gransnet. In January.

Please don't go. The forum would be dull without you. Obviously. smile

j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 17:46:40

Ladyblue not ladylike. Sodding fire

LizG Wed 02-Oct-13 17:50:22

I wish we had a 'like' button Greatnan because I agree with everything you have just said. flowers for you Ladyblue

Riverwalk Wed 02-Oct-13 17:50:23

Ladyblue I'm curious as to why you are judging the forum by the one narky response - J08 was outnumbered by about 20/1. You seem to easily take umbrage.

j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 17:57:33

It seems we are expected to be saints on Gransnet and keep our true feelings bottled up.

That is not for me.

Riverwalk Wed 02-Oct-13 18:00:11

J08 don't go there (January)! We'll have that chap, wotsisname, you know the one who likes very old women, making an appearance grin

MiceElf Wed 02-Oct-13 18:02:30

No one is expected to keep 'true feelings' bottled up. What is expected is courtesy and understanding. If a member finds those two things impossible then it's better to keep silence.

A thoughtful response to a question should be expected. Insults and spite are quite out of order, here or in any civilised discourse.

j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 18:10:13

I do not appreciate being contacted by moderators who obviously go only on reports by a few posters. Perhaps if they took the time and trouble to read a few more of my posts, they might get a more balanced and fairer view. angry

Greatnan Wed 02-Oct-13 18:10:38

I resent being told that Facebook is only for teenagers - it enables me to keep in daily touch with my far-flung family and friends.
Several of us have had major or minor estrangements or misunderstandings with family members (even you, jingle, I think) and it is quite wrong to suggest that all those affected have somehow failed in their parenting skills.
There seems to be a habit amongst some members to blame anybody who is bullied or mistreated in any way and insist it must be partly their own fault. This is the way bullying was treated when I was a child and the way some judges treat victims of abuse.

MiceElf Wed 02-Oct-13 18:12:49

I imagine that there are a number of members who 'do not appreciate' being the target of spiteful and unkind comments.

Elegran Wed 02-Oct-13 18:16:24

But maybe the moderators have read a few more of your posts. Jingle?

j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 18:16:32


j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 18:17:02

Yes, of course they have. The ones mean minded posters reported.

j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 18:17:30

It's not worth this.

merlotgran Wed 02-Oct-13 18:19:21

Greatnan, If there is a disagreement between two people, how can there not be two sides to the story and how on earth can my comment be unfair?

Since when has keeping an open mind been wrong?

Mishap Wed 02-Oct-13 18:24:22

I have removed myself from facebook today - it is such a pain getting so many emails from them when I hardly ever use facebook - I needed to have it ages ago for work. There are far better ways of communicating with people.

MiceElf Wed 02-Oct-13 18:25:14

J08. Your comment was removed. I have noticed that many of your comments have been removed. They have been removed for breaking the guidelines.

It is wise to learn from past errors and refrain from making comments which cause distress to people. And shouting doesn't make anything correct.

Greatnan Wed 02-Oct-13 18:58:25

Merlotgran - some of us have not had any disagreement with our children - they have simply cut us out of their lives for some perceived offence. It takes two to disagree and I have never done or said anything to hurt my daughter. She suffers from paranoid delusions brought on by ten years abuse of codeine and painkillers since she was badly damaged by an incompetent surgeon. I have spent years of my retirement fighting the MDU to get her fair damages, sold my house to help her and had to pay rent for five years, left my lovely life in France to care for her and her children, tried to keep her business going when she was in hospital........where in this do you think I have been at fault?
It is probably not wise to make sweeping generalisations when you don't know the full facts.

merlotgran Wed 02-Oct-13 19:17:29

I wasn't commenting on rights or wrongs, Greatnan and I know you have suffered a lot of pain over the breakdown of your relationship with your daughter. I wasn't making a sweeping generalisation because there just might be another side to the OP's situation.

And I consider it wise to keep an open mind if you don't know the full facts.

j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 19:41:10

I've been thinking, (!) and I realise that the reason Gransnet and I would always be at odds is the false sincerity behind it.

Gransnet is, of course, a business like any other and as such it needs, and wants, to make money. It needs a high number of signed up posters simply so that it can give that number to potential advertisers. The fact that only a relatively small number of posters actually post anything is neither here nor there. The number of official members is the important thing. And if any gransnetter, no matter how much they might have, or might not have, contributed to the forums, steps out of line and thereby threatens the business side of things, that person has to be stamped on. Heavily.

I don't like that. I appreciate it is the way of the world but still.... I don't like it.

I think it is a shame that Age UK has joined its name to this idea.

MiceElf Wed 02-Oct-13 19:50:14

Are you seriously suggesting that the reason why both of your posts above (and many others) were deleted, is because this site is a business?

To repeat, it was because they broke the guidelines, guidelines which are there for all to read.

There's nothing wrong with running a business, and there's nothing wrong with making a profit, and there's nothing wrong with providing employment.

But there is something wrong with posting personal hurtful comments.

annsixty Wed 02-Oct-13 19:53:10

And those comments were very hurtful.

j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 19:57:42

No. I'm not talking about the thread. Justt the emails gransnet is fond of sending out.

MiceElf Wed 02-Oct-13 19:59:51

No idea what these are. Perhaps you could copy and paste.

j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 20:00:35

I doubt very much if my comment was genuinely hurtful.

j08 Wed 02-Oct-13 20:01:55

Can't be bothered. Going back to real life.

MiceElf Wed 02-Oct-13 20:03:56

How can you know? If those comments had been written by someone else and directed at you, the comments would still be perceived as hurtful. Indeed the OP herself described how she felt. Only someone with hide of a rhinoceros would fail to be hurt.

annsixty Wed 02-Oct-13 20:05:28

Yes it was ,no question about it.

bluebell Wed 02-Oct-13 20:07:13

Bags and Lady blue this week and it's only Wednesday.Well done - come on Gagagran - how come you aren't criticising people today for being nasty to JO - you couldn't get at me quick enough yesterday!!

Greatnan Wed 02-Oct-13 20:16:08

Odd, I don't get routine emails from GNHQ and nor, I suspect, do many other people. Has it ever occurred to you, jingle, that your constant deletions might actually have something to do with the unpleasant things you sometimes say? Or do you think people are picking on you without any justification? You have been allowed to get away with telling people , including me, to fuck off, which would have got some people banned. You have been given a great deal of leeway but there must surely come a time when even your little band of loyal supporters has had enough and can no longer defend you.

absent Wed 02-Oct-13 20:16:50

I have only just got round to reading this thread and, frankly, I wish I hadn't bothered. (Nothing to do with you Ladyblue). I started to make a comment and then realised that it would be completely pointless – as is becoming increasingly common on almost all the forums. sad

Greatnan Wed 02-Oct-13 20:27:42

Absent - please keep posting - we need your common sense views.

bluebell Wed 02-Oct-13 20:27:52

I've just emailed GN suggesting that they must have planted JO because nothing else explains why she gets away with so much and has done for so long. The halcyon days when she was on holiday - sighs- and the sickening thread asking where she was and welcoming her back - FFS. Sorry absent to add to all the awfulness but some of us are just bloody fed up with her and are saying so. It is interesting this time that she's not getting her usual supporters speaking up for her

Ana Wed 02-Oct-13 20:33:20

Bluebell, I think you are the only poster who could rival J08 in the deleted posts stakes, so I don't think you've got any reason to take the moral high ground.

Lona Wed 02-Oct-13 20:43:05

As I said yesterday, you bluebell aren't slow to be sarcastic and nasty when it suits uou.

Iam64 Wed 02-Oct-13 20:56:21

Why do some posters deliberately set out to cause dissent, or distress to this OP. Merlotgran, I don't agree with you that there are two sides to every story. I found your 'flouncing off' comment provocative and potentially hurtful to the OP. I also fully support the comments made by Greatnan and MiceElf.

annodomini Wed 02-Oct-13 21:06:21

So you're going back to 'real life', are you, J08? Are you implying that the OP was not writing about her real life? If that is the intention, I'm suggesting that this is adding insult to injury and perhaps you ought to think very hard about your responses to posters in distress.

Aka Wed 02-Oct-13 21:06:45

WTF is Bluebottle on about now? I've just backtracked through this thread and can't see anything by Gagagran.

whenim64 Wed 02-Oct-13 21:10:49

From personal experience, I have found that people who have done no more than be closely related to the target of someone's wrath, can be on the receiving end of extreme nastiness when they have done nothing wrong. It's a way of hurting that individual even more, when you can cause distress to those that they care about. No, indeed, there isn't always another side to the story.

Aka Wed 02-Oct-13 21:18:54

Though I may not understand BB reference to Gaga her post about the 'halcyon days' when J0 was on holiday is frankly disgraceful and her description of 'sickening' re her welcome back actually sickens me. Such vitriol! hmm

merlotgran Wed 02-Oct-13 21:19:11

So although we don't know Ladyblue and we don't know her family we must take her word as gospel and not consider that her daughter and son in law might have a reason for feeling aggrieved?

Posters who come on here to share their anguish expect support and I know Greatnan has said on another thread (way back) that they expect to read what they want to read. Isn't this a very one sided way of viewing life?

Aka Wed 02-Oct-13 21:24:38

To get back to the thread, sometimes support means more than just agreeing with a poster or giving positive verbal strokes. Sometimes it may be better to ask questions that help the poster reflect on their own behaviour and how it might be seen or indeed misinterpreted.
I'm NOT saying this is the case here but yes, there is more often than not two sides to be taken into consideration.

petallus Wed 02-Oct-13 21:25:11

There usually is another side to a story but you would not expect the people closely involved to be able to see it.

whenim64 Wed 02-Oct-13 21:25:48

If there's a post that indicates someone is seeking support, and they're having a tough time, it's not unreasonable to empathise if you feel able, or just say nothing. Please don't accuse them of whining when there's really nothing to warrant nastiness. That's all smile

Penstemmon Wed 02-Oct-13 21:28:55

merlot surely that is the case for anything any of us post..

We could all be being economical with the truth when making posts. What would make you believe Poster A over Poster Z?

The OP could be hiding half the story or could be telling 100% truth. Either way she has made a post and could reasonably expect some helpful replies.

If one felt it was not ringing true, or had nothing constructive to say, move to a thread that one could make a useful contribution to or cared more about. No need to be unkind or dismissive because you do not know how strong or vulnerable the poster may be.

Aka Wed 02-Oct-13 21:30:13

Exactly my point Petallus. It wasn't too long ago that I was accused of 'emotional blackmail' by a poster when I asked for support When and I consider that was just plain nasty. It happens.

petallus Wed 02-Oct-13 21:31:49

Whining was not a kind word.

Offering sympathy is bound to be helpful but I often wonder what the other people in a given situation would say if they got the chance.

whenim64 Wed 02-Oct-13 21:37:45

Petallus not sure if you were responding to my post - I was closely involved, though, so I'll answer. In my case, the judge dealing with my son's divorce and the parental alienation engineered by ex-DiL, stated in court that her unreasonable behaviour was unwarranted and her campaign to keep my grandson from seeing his dad and me was an act of cruel revenge for him ending an abusive marriage. Alcohol abuse and greed were to blame for her bad behaviour. She hasn't stopped, but now has other victims in her sights, with another baby to use as a weapon. I supported her and empathised with her even after he left, and she said so to several people, but she also realised that hurting me would hurt my son, so she told him what she was going to do to hurt me, and did it. Some people are just like that.

whenim64 Wed 02-Oct-13 21:41:39

Just catching up with the latest on this thread. I see trouble brewing, so I'm gone. Fed up with yet another thread that didn't need to get contentious, but has, and always for the same reason. Night all.

petallus Wed 02-Oct-13 21:48:28

I was speaking generally when. [ smile]

Anyway, the two perspectives do not always have to have equal merit.

Iam64 Wed 02-Oct-13 21:51:06

When - I was about to go when your post 21.41 appeared. Sending you a bunch of flowers, and I hope you relax and sleep well. I can't find words to describe my feelings in response to your experiences. There are so many good people who have been hurt by others, in ways that I find it difficult to forgive. I am in full agreement with your final post - it's such a pity that this thread became contentious, absolutely no need for it. Good night all

Aka Wed 02-Oct-13 21:52:20

when moon sweet dreams.

Greatnan Wed 02-Oct-13 21:52:58

Good heavens, Merlot - are you yet another member who cherishes my words so much that they remember them long after I have forgotten them? I have no idea why I made that remark ,if indeed I did.
I think we should accept any member's posts at face value - why would anybody bother coming onto a forum to post lies about their situation. That is a very unpleasant insinuation.

Aka Wed 02-Oct-13 22:03:16

Don't think anyone deliberately posts lies, at least I hope not, but when you're in a difficult situation you may not be able to look at it objectively. I'm sure that's what was meant.

annodomini Wed 02-Oct-13 22:56:16

moon G'night all.

Flowerofthewest Mon 07-Oct-13 23:48:24

Me neither Aka! did the same as you as couldn't believe my eyes that this is still going on. I think they are called Trolls on other sites. Every site needs a Troll and it looks like we have out very own (just the one)

Flowerofthewest Mon 07-Oct-13 23:50:28

Back to school tomorrow girlsconfused

Flowerofthewest Mon 07-Oct-13 23:54:21

~FIO have just tried to send Ladyblue a PM only to find that she no longer exists. Well done!