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To be stressed by climate change

(222 Posts)
Alexa Fri 19-Apr-19 08:50:35

AIBU? All I have to do be un-stressed is put my fingers in my ears.

GrannyGravy13 Fri 19-Apr-19 09:03:00

No I am not stressed about Climate Change, I do what I can to help the planet, recycle, solar panels, water harvesting system, eco friendly engined car. Buy as many local food products as possible to save on food air miles.

If we all do our bit hopefully it can make a difference.

It's India, China and USA that cause the most damage with their CO2 emissions and I cannot see them changing in the near future?

Eglantine21 Fri 19-Apr-19 09:16:14

There are just too many people.

The only real answer is for humans to stop breeding so prolifically.

Anyone prepared to commit to that on a personal level?

BradfordLass72 Fri 19-Apr-19 09:19:06

If history is to be believed (and I'm just reading about a mini Ice Age in the 1600's) then this is, to a certain extent, a natural, recurring cycle and there is little we can do to stop it.

Like GrannyGravy, I do all I can to help save water, use cloth bags for shopping, recycle and more but I often feel that when a giant like the USA won't even join the rest of the world in trying to cut industrial emissions, and other damaging practices, what use am I?

But it won't stop me trying.

I certainly don't worry about it because our world has been through climate change before and long after we are gone will probably be turning.
And if it doesn't, then my efforts to save it weren't wasted because I did my bit.

Urmstongran Fri 19-Apr-19 09:22:14

You’re right Eglantine good comment. Most of us won’t though so on we go. Depressing but true I fear.

We can only make a minute difference as individuals. They do add up (a bit) but not a great deal really.

So what I can’t do anything about I don’t worry about as it achieves nothing.

Nannyxthree Fri 19-Apr-19 09:27:15

I agree. I will continue to do my bit too, but if USA, China and India don't want to know then my 'bit' is the smallest drop in the ocean.
I can't agree with the demonstrations going on though. There are people who still need to get to work and people who have paid good money to visit London this Easter and they are having that time spoilt. There must be other ways to make a point without causing so much trouble.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 19-Apr-19 09:33:22

I have already posted this but it has disappeared. So apologise if appears twice.

I get terribly distressed by climate change which is why I watch none if the programmes.

Homo Saipan is a pariah species, which exploits all other species on the earth. It is slowly destroying the earths atmosphere and eco systems.

If homo sapien became extinct the earth would sigh with relief.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 19-Apr-19 09:34:45

sapien iPad cant cope🙂

Alexa Fri 19-Apr-19 10:14:29

Whitewavemark, your "terribly distressed" is sign of sanity, whereas not actually distressed or downright denying is sign of insanity.

I agree about our species. We are like bacteria which having eaten up their hosts cease being an epidemic. Our species is at the crisis point when we are about to cease being a species of any importance.

henetha Fri 19-Apr-19 10:14:43

I agree with Grannygravy. We can only do our bit and
it's no good us getting stressed about it. Until other countries become committed to change there is little we can do.
And our planet has been through many changes anyway.
I hope and believe that it will survive. ~But we still need to clean it up where we can, and persuade other countries to help.

janeainsworth Fri 19-Apr-19 10:26:40

The only real answer is for humans to stop breeding so prolifically. Anyone prepared to commit to that on a personal level?

Eglantine It’s a bit late for most of us on Gransnet, I would have thoughthmm

In any case, in most developed countries the birth rate has fallen to below replacement levels, which is why we need immigration, so that there will be enough people of working age in the population.

optimist Fri 19-Apr-19 10:28:30

I am not stressed by climate change but I do love to see the young demonstrating on issues they believe in and they feel affect their future. I applaud their energy and passion.

Camelotclub Fri 19-Apr-19 10:36:21

Third world countries without access to decent birth control so over-breeding doesn't help matters. Nor does air travel - planes are huge polluters.

I am an imposter on Gransnet as I've not had kids, hence no grandkids. I joined to read the interesting discussions. And we don't fly (I hate it) so like to think we're doing our bit for the world!

Shall I now be drummed out of the club?

Eglantine21 Fri 19-Apr-19 10:36:22

Too late for me Jane! Though even back in the seventies I made the conscious decision to limit my family because I could see what was coming.

In the wider family context though, not many people would give up having grandchildren. (I know it’s not their choice)

Suppose the governments of the world got together and said, like China did, one child only. Would people support it?

Razzy Fri 19-Apr-19 10:41:38

I don’t think it is unreasonable at all- you can put your fingers in your ears but you still know what’s happening. People and society do get influenced and I think all changes start small. I recycle, but ultimately I try to use less - drives me nuts when people put bananas in a plastic throw away bag at the supermarket - why????!!!
So my next car will be electric, although I walk as much as possible, I also try to eat organic and have gone vegan. The more I read about veganism the more I think it is the key to sustainability. Vegans aren’t perfect but it would save a massive amount of resources if everyone went vegan. I did not realise until I joined Challenge22 just how much the meat and dairy industry consume. Veganism is growing quickly, particularly amongst younger people. Also people are buying less and are more aware of consumerism. Having said that, I’m not sure all the Amazon parcels are helping! Some countries are seeing negative population growth also. We can only do what we can do. I’m just planting some more hedges which benefit wildlife, water run off and soil erosion. I keep a wildlife friendly garden. No I am not perfect, I could do more, but I could also do a lot less. If everyone gradually improves on what they are doing the rate of global warming could be slowed. I think it is a natural cycle but humans have accelerated it hugely.

Marjgran Fri 19-Apr-19 10:41:44

Yes we should worry, maybe we need not to make ourselves sick with stress because that won’t help. The UK thinks it is cutting emissions but actually we are “exporting” them to other countries who make our goods for us. It is a bit inaccurate to blame China - look in your cupboards and much of what you have bought in the last decade will be made in China. And many goods from India. So we can boast about our clean factories whilst wearing clothes made in China, kept in cupboards made in China or Vietnam, using mugs made in China or Bangladesh, driving cars made in Korea.... eating avocados and strawberries flown from wherever. If you take into account the per capita emissions not just the country totals, we don’t look so smart. So worry for our grandchildren is a sane response, climate change will affect their lives, and our over consumption and over use of resources affect their health. Civil unrest will be the least of it!

silvercollie Fri 19-Apr-19 10:43:05

Those GN's who have said that this is largely a natural function are correct in my view. These changes on our Planet are subtle and of the 'man made' contribution, there are worse transgressors than little old GB.
I have to say that I cannot fathom what on earth all those Protestors think they can achieve. It's a bit like Canute trying to turn the tide!

Eglantine21 Fri 19-Apr-19 10:46:50

Ah well Camelot, by not having children and grandchildren you’ve done more to preserve the planet than most!

MiniMoon Fri 19-Apr-19 10:53:36

Would planting more trees help limit climate change? Reinstate the rainforests across the globe. Rainforests are the lungs of the world. They breathe in carbon dioxide and breathe out oxygen.
Look around your area at new housing developments, where are the trees?
The earth has always gone through phases of warming and cooling, how much we are contributing to the natural rhythms of the planet is still being processed, but I think we are aiding the acceleration of warming through our activities.

Urmstongran Fri 19-Apr-19 10:54:37

Hi Camelot nice to have you join us! Something here for everyone.

Urmstongran Fri 19-Apr-19 10:57:30

You could be right MiniMoon

They say the ubiquitous decking hasn’t helped our eco system either!

There are so many facets to all of this, it’s easy to feel overwhelmed.

janeainsworth Fri 19-Apr-19 11:05:56

eglantine Suppose the governments of the world got together and said, like China did, one child only. Would people support it?
China’s one-child policy was enforced in the most brutal ways and has now been abandoned, so let’s not go there.
The single most important way of reducing the birth rate and population is by educating girls.

Minimoon I agree trees are very important not only in counteracting CO2 emissions, and absorbing pollutants, but also in flood prevention.

Foxygran Fri 19-Apr-19 11:08:44

I agree with whitewave.

Personally, I think the Extinction Rebellion movement is fantastic and it isn’t solely for young people! I’ve thought of joining myself and support them on Facebook. They are raising the issue GLOBALLY and putting concern for the climate/species extinction on the News, on social media and in the papers. Many Politicians worldwide won’t do anything because they know they won’t win the popular vote and all that appears to really matter in this world is the accumulation of money and power. They certainly know that enforcing any sort of human birth control would be grossly unpopular.

I feel sorry for the people inconvenienced, but if the activists weren’t causing disruption, it wouldn’t make the news.

Theoddbird Fri 19-Apr-19 11:10:08

If people stopped flying it would help. Planes are the biggest cause of pollution to our air. This was proved, when after 9/11 every aircraft was grounded Co2 plummeted.

Eglantine21 Fri 19-Apr-19 11:13:10

Is was brutal I agree and I’m not advocating it.

Just making the point (I think) that nothing is actually going to solve the problem except bringing down the number of people using the worlds resources.

While the human population continues to grow everything else will have little effect.

But very few people would make the decision not to have a family in order to save the planet.

paddyann Fri 19-Apr-19 11:26:08

only educating "girls" janeainsworth ? I was under the impression that men have as much to do with reproduction as women..There are still those that think men "sowing wild oats" is the norm ...yet are judgemental about the women left holding the baby!!

Kim19 Fri 19-Apr-19 11:27:14

I try to do my bit but I don't go OTT. Nor do I worry. I now definitely resolve not to have any more children. Lots of practises frustrate me but that's probably because I was brought up in frugal circumstances and so many modern habits come under the heading of waste for me.

janeainsworth Fri 19-Apr-19 11:33:59

Not sex education paddyann.
Giving them a general education to give them a wider view of the world and the confidence to think for themselves.
In many third world countries boys receive an education but girls stay at home.

Alexa Fri 19-Apr-19 11:35:46

Maybe the danger is so bad that putting the fingers in the ears is only natural. When you cannot do anything about it accept it.

I don't agree so . I think we humans deserve to rage against our extinction after 11 or twelve years time.

janeainsworth Fri 19-Apr-19 11:37:32
“The education of girls is a critical area for stabilizing population. Hence, inadequate education is a powerful determinant of high fertility and ensures that individuals do not live up to their potential. The Program of Action adopted at the 1994 ICPD held in Cairo showed that when women have control over their lives, they are better able to contribute to a society that presents them with choices.”

lincolnimp Fri 19-Apr-19 11:47:51

Silvercollie totally agree with you

Apricity Fri 19-Apr-19 11:58:46

Quite simply if your aren't stressed by climate change you aren't paying attention. It is the biggest, most significant issue of the 21st century, everything else pales into insignificance besides the enormity of climate change.

Most of us of a certain age will be fine and probably our children will be, but our precious grandchildren and all the other precious grandchildren around the world are the ones who will have to have to deal with the consequences and pay the price of the folly, stupidity, denial and greed of earlier generations. And that includes all of us Grans. All we can do is the very best we can in our own lives, keep the issue on the political agenda, support local and national initiatives etc. We can all play our own small part. I'd rather be remembered for having tried than for living in a bubble of self indulgence and denial.

And believe me I do know how appalling Australia's record is on this issue and I work actively to try to change that.

Graninda Fri 19-Apr-19 12:02:13

It's hard to realise, but this is serous. The science is real and the forecasts are devastating if we continue burning fossil fuels and the government is 're-arranging chairs on the Titanic'. I am preparing my grandson for a very different life from ours - luckily I still have the 'waste not, want not' mind-set of the fifties and have never driven a car but I do believe in the 'butterfly effect' so I will do all I can (little too old to get arrested!).

Alexa Fri 19-Apr-19 12:03:50

" Karan Singh, a former minister of population in India, illustrated this trend by stating "Development is the best contraceptive " (Wikipedia)

Affluent nations have lower birthrates. Getting rid of poverty worldwide would benefit all.

grandtanteJE65 Fri 19-Apr-19 12:17:46

In the long term governments need to make serious efforts to prevent climate change and to end poverty and provide every child in the world with a good education.

I'm afraid I don't see any of that coming about in our lifetime.

We can and should do our bit and try to influence politicians to do their bit.

Part of the climate change is natural, but sadly probably only a little bit of it. So we all have to try to think of ways of saving our environment.

NanaandGrampy Fri 19-Apr-19 12:19:54

I cant say I 'stress' about it Alexa but that might be because I don't stress about much and certainly not things I cant change.

That's not to say it doesn't concern me and that's not to say I don't do what I can within reason - but stress? no .

jaylucy Fri 19-Apr-19 12:21:12

We should have taken notice of what certain people were saying back in the 70s and 80s.
Our whole lives, to some extent have been determined by supermarkets - when I was a child, we only really ate what was grown or produced locally. Nowadays it's "you want strawberries at Christmas? No problem, we'll just fly some in from Israel" etc and it goes on.
We can all do a bit - use our own shopping bags, recycle, try not to buy things in plastic (that's nearly impossible!) , use public transport etc

Tillybelle Fri 19-Apr-19 12:23:57

I try not to let it make me ill with anxiety. It makes me so worried for my Grand children. But getting into a state of anxiety does not help. I do my bit in my small way but know this is minuscule and only major word-wide changes can make a difference.

I am not entirely convinced that there are too many people in the world. It is a problem of management and a problem of wars and the use of fossil fuels. I wish too that we were not so addicted to a meat-based diet.

I admire my children, as they hardly ever buy new clothes and lead very simple lives, eating wholesome food and trying to avoid air travel if they can.

LullyDully Fri 19-Apr-19 12:34:10

In the 1960/70s everyone banged on about World overpopulation. The Chinese I know made a big mistake over that with their one child policy.
For many years it was politically incorrect to mention over population, maybe we are too late to solve that one without a huge war or disaster.

As the world warms there will be an inevitable migration to more temperate regions. That will spell catastrophe. Little people have to do their bit and politicians and industry have a huge burden to reverse centuries of earth's neglect.

Do we have the will and the answer? Worrying future for our grandchildren.

Tillybelle Fri 19-Apr-19 12:34:38

You are so perspicacious! That sentence:
Our whole lives, to some extent have been determined by supermarkets really resounded in me!

I remember my mother writing an order in her order book and the Grocer delivering the simple box of groceries that lasted the family of 4 for a week. If she forgot something we were sent to collect it and told to ask the Grocer to "Add it to the order." I can remember going in and asking for "4 medium sliced back rashers". Milk of course was delivered in re-used bottles. We ate a large amount of organic veg from the garden. I think we were unaware of how healthily we lived.

When one of my daughter's French Exchange child came to stay she begged to be taken to our Supermarket. She absolutely loved the English (she said) supermarkets and English white sliced wrapped bread! There was I telling her how well people in France ate! Buying their veg fresh daily, decent bread, not over-eating, enjoying family meals.... no TV dinners..
Now I live alone apart from my dogs and I wish I could find a ready made complete food like I feed to the dogs so that I could just pour it into a bowl and eat it without having to think of what to have tonight. I really have lost all interest in food. Does anyone know of a complete food I can live on please?

Ladyinspain Fri 19-Apr-19 12:41:39

Not to mention the business that have no customers coming! It seems ok to protest and party in the London streets, but they have no consideration for the people they are DIRECTLY affecting. How would ambulances get through for example! This is NOT Glastonbury -there are people busking for money at this protest!

sarahcyn Fri 19-Apr-19 12:53:27

We are "homo sapiens"
The "s" belongs there, it's a Latin word ending, not an English plural form.

Callistemon Fri 19-Apr-19 13:28:59

If history is to be believed (and I'm just reading about a mini Ice Age in the 1600's) then this is, to a certain extent, a natural, recurring cycle and there is little we can do to stop it.
BradfordLass - indeed and this is a question to which there does not seem to be an answer. What caused climate change over the millennia?

What does cause me stress is pollution - traffic pollution and the dreadful plastic polluting rivers and oceans around the world.

Happiyogi Fri 19-Apr-19 13:32:03

Did anyone watch the Attenborough programme last night? It ought to be compulsory.

We HAVE to care, do what we personally can, and elect leaders who care too and will act on behalf of us and the planet.

In the near future, when our grandchildren are struggling for actual survival, could you live with yourself if they ask why the hell we didn't we do something while there was still time?

Marjgran Fri 19-Apr-19 13:34:40

The evidence is that educating girls / women has a better effect on family size and on family health than educating men

Marjgran Fri 19-Apr-19 13:37:06

I feel sick deep inside when I read anyone doubting the science and the seriousness. When there is an American president who does not see it as urgent and vital, it is so discouraging. When I was 20 I didn’t know about climate change but did know about pollution

Callistemon Fri 19-Apr-19 13:40:00

When I ask 'why has this happened over the millennia' it does not mean that I think we should carry on blithely and not do our utmost.

Understanding why it happened in the past could help us now and in the future.

Saggi Fri 19-Apr-19 13:49:11

I’m afraid I don’t even read paper or watch news...I’ve had to take it on for 69 years....this is my time to let go of most responsibilities and pass-the-buck I’m afraid.

quizqueen Fri 19-Apr-19 14:22:14

Emma Thompson thought she'd join the climate change demonstration to save the planet by flying in from LA. It just goes to show the stupidity of some people; she's another champagne socialist- too posh to have a Tesco near her home as well!! I hope she is on gransnet and sees this comment.

Callistemon Fri 19-Apr-19 14:36:00

Well, she has certainly invited ridicule quizqueen.

Minimoon -
Would planting more trees help limit climate change? Reinstate the rainforests across the globe. Rainforests are the lungs of the world. They breathe in carbon dioxide and breathe out oxygen.
Yes, we are cutting down the forests at an exponential rate which is a disaster for the planet, the wildlife that depend on the forests and for us in the long-term. We cut them down for short-term greed.

We should be planting more and more trees, not allowing them to be decimated.

mosaicwarts Fri 19-Apr-19 15:14:56

I'm stressed about it and joined several 'climate change' Facebook groups last night.

I cannot understand why the big companies are not regulated and held accountable for their actions, many of which are increasing our global emissions.

My friend lives in California, where a company we all know, drain all of their water and sell it in plastic bottles, causing drought conditions. Since they have been doing this the forest fires have in increased in size and frequency.
In 2017 she had to drive through the falling ashes of the forest fires to get to work, it was either side of the highway and I was terrified for her. In 2018 she could actually see the forest fire from her back garden.

I am sorry I can't do very much to reduce my carbon footprint, but I've dusted off my bike today. Will my knees take me where I need to go I wonder!

CrazyGrandma2 Fri 19-Apr-19 15:23:31

Like others I do what I can and am mindful of treating our planet with the respect that it deserves. However, I believe that long term the planet will take care of itself as it has been doing since the beginning of time. Part of that process might result in the extinction of humankind. Who knows.

montymops Fri 19-Apr-19 16:20:48

I do agree that the historical perspective might be important. In Henry 2nd’s reign grapes were grown near Hadrians Wall and much wine was made. In biblical times the floods, droughts and plagues were attributed to God as a punishment for wrongdoing. In Victorian times, frost fairs took place on the frozen Thames in London. I think the present protesters are born of, as Jeremy Warner says ‘ an advanced economy and middle class privilege’ - they nip into Waitrose for food and a bottle of wine and then back to sit on the bridge and scribble all over buildings and the road - they should be required to clean it up. Perhaps a good thunderstorm is needed - back home they will go in their 4x4’s and jet off on holiday. Sorry if I sound cynical but I am.

Craftycat Fri 19-Apr-19 16:34:16

Of course we must be aware of it & we must do what we reasonably can. There are small steps we can all take to improve things but until there is a worldwide agreement it will just be a drop in the open.
However these morons stopping normal everyday life going on in London are doing nothing to help the cause at all- far the opposite. How many extra police hours, court hours etc. are being wasted & how much is it all costing?
I'd send the water canons in & disburse the whole lot of them. How many of them have jobs that they can just stay in town all the time & how many are we paying for if they are on benefits?
It's time we stopped the whole daft rigmarole- if they want to protest do it by legal means & don't block up our beautiful capital city!

gillybob Fri 19-Apr-19 16:40:58

Climate Change is one of the few things that I am not stressed about . I think I do as mush as I can at the minute and I am always looking at new / old ways of doing things to save resources .

Callistemon Fri 19-Apr-19 17:33:07

Is there any point in getting 'stressed'?
We can all do our level best not to pollute the earth more but getting stressed is counter-productive.

Does protesting move us any further forward; is it productive or just more hot air?

I am more impressed by scientists who are finding ways to capture and store the carbon dioxide and turn it into stone, the scientists who are working to try to find a solution to the plastic problem that pollutes our rivers and oceans and by those who are working to try to save our marine life in the meantime.

I try to have faith that these scientists will find solutions to these current problems and work with governments and big businesses to start to clean up our planet with help from us all.

phoenix Fri 19-Apr-19 17:39:10

I do everything that I can, but cannot allow myself to "stress" about it.

rosecarmel Fri 19-Apr-19 17:44:28

I think every living thing is now subjected to some degree of stress due to our dying environment - But at the same time it offers infinite beauty to be taken in from that which has yet to be destroyed completely - I've no idea what the future has in store environmentally, so each day I take frequent breaks to appreciate nature and have meaningful discussions with others - I don't consider my efforts to create less waste useless and I don't beat myself up over what I do to contribute to our decline - If anyone benefits from the destruction that climate change brings about by way of weather related events I guess it would be the corporations that market the construction matererials that are needed to rebuild after storms blow through -- and stock holders? Anyone else benefit from it?

amt101 Fri 19-Apr-19 17:49:30

I do read Piers Corbyn who says it’s cyclical but am aware we might be the cause.
There are many changes we could make but it won’t be easy.
It’s true there are large countries that could do far more and there are far far too many of us on this planet. Just considering the UK, when I was born there were 44 million of us and now there’s at least 20 million more.
If you listen to the business news it’s always about growth. Capitalism relies on us buying more and more. For organisations they need us to spend more and if we don’t its bad news.
I can’t say I’ve consiously tried to reuse and reduce but as I prefer antique furniture very little in my house has been bought new. So inadvertently I think I may have helped.

Ducky Fri 19-Apr-19 17:58:03

I agree that the problem is the planet has too many people. If they all stopped breeding like rabbits there wouldn't be a problem and if children's allowance was limited to the first two children then perhaps people might change! That would also help with the welfare payments problem.

MamaCaz Fri 19-Apr-19 18:03:05

You only have to read other topics and threads on Gransnet to see that quite a few Gransnetters strongly believe that if they (due to their much vaunted 'hard work') can afford to do something, then there is no reason on earth why they shouldn't do it. As far as they are concerned, that's all there is to it. End of!

phoenix Fri 19-Apr-19 18:14:46

Not entirely sure I understand your post, MamaCaz confused

Eglantine21 Fri 19-Apr-19 18:19:44

Not sure getting the allowance is what motivates people to have children Ducky or that removing it would stop them.

The urge to have a family is very strong. I don’t suppose there are many on GN who would say “I would willingly give up having grandchildren in order to save the planet” even those who are worried about the planet their grandchildren will inherit.

NanTheWiser Fri 19-Apr-19 18:26:32

It doesn't stress me - obviously I do the recycling to the best of my abilities, but as previously said, unless the US, China and India do their bit, our contributions make almost no difference.
And this old planet of ours has remarkable ways of correcting and adapting, so Stress? No...

starbird Fri 19-Apr-19 18:34:04

A few months ago I read that it is predicted that we will have a mini ice age starting in 2030. Do you remember the tv series about Kibworth and what happened when the UK and lresumably the rest of the world, had one year of almost no sun? The earth barely got above freezing even in mid summer.
This is not an excuse to do nothing about global warming because if the earth is already badly deforested and in a mess, a mini ice age will make it worse, but it is something to consider in the equation of what to do over the next ten years.
I believe in the Gaia theory that the earth has a way of regulating itself, but that doesn’t mean that humanity will all be saved - perhaps a part of earth’s self regulation is to destroy large portions of mankind and what they have done to the earth! . I sincerely hope that if there has to be mass suffering the soper rich on their get away islands etc will get their fair share. . We need to get back to basics but not, hopefully, at the expense of modern technology, rather use it to help everyone share the earth's resources equitably.

starbird Fri 19-Apr-19 18:35:35

Sorry for typos I missed when I checked!

CanadianGran Fri 19-Apr-19 18:51:09

I am saddened and I guess stressed by it all. I listen to science podcasts in the evening, and it seems all I hear about now is frog species going extinct, coral reef bleaching, whale pods declining in population.

I do fear for our planet, although I know that some climate change is cyclical, there is so much damage caused by humans that is irreversible. I can only do my little bit and hope that it is cumulative.

I also fear a loss of connection to the earth; farming in a smaller scale, harvesting nature in a replenishable manner, paying attention to seasons and nature. I honestly think future generations would starve since they have no knowledge of gardening and animal husbandry.

Annaram1 Fri 19-Apr-19 18:57:41

I know we are not able to change the world, but the UK is often in the forefront of reform and what we do here may be an example to other nations. I wonder how long it will be before stupid Trump gets told about climate change etc.? I suppose it is all Russian propaganda and fake news to him, living in his rich little bubble.
Attenborough's wonderful film did not mention population. A decade ago we all worried about the growth of population in third world countries, It is not just girls who need to be educated. Contraception costs money and people there cannot always afford it.
When I travel by plane I always plant at least one tree when I get back, not only in my own garden but in my son's. Just try and do your bit for the sake of the earth.

Annaram1 Fri 19-Apr-19 19:04:43

By the way, how many of you remember that China once had a policy of "Only one child per couple"? They all wanted a boy and baby girls were left on mountain sides etc. Many years later as the boys grew up they could not find girls to marry, and trekked from village to village looking for a bride. Population control doesn't always work.

Confused2 Fri 19-Apr-19 19:13:37

I DO agree with you Happiyogi. I watched it too and the thought that when my oldest grandchild who is 5 now but will be only 27 when the earth is even hotter terrified me. People who say we are in a natural cycle haven't obviously seen the cores of ice which scientists have extracted. They show the composition of the earth's atmosphere for millions of years but the change which has occurred in these cores since the Industrial Revolution is evidence of the harm we are doing by using fossil fuels. It is irrefutable and I think last night's programme should be watched by everyone.

Annaram1 Fri 19-Apr-19 19:33:57


It is only by the London demonstrators and also the schoolchildren's protests all over the world makes ordinary people wake up and see WHY they are demonstrating. Sitting on your backside achieves nothing, Think of the suffragettes. You wold not be able to vote if those brace women had not demonstrated for their cause.

varian Fri 19-Apr-19 19:34:14

Our generation has been so fortunate. There is a real danger now to the future of our grandchildren's generation.

Worldwide the danger is climate change and the breakdown of peaceful co-operation between nations.

The poison of brexit in the UK is just a nasty symptom of that breakdown. But fortunately we still have (just enough) time to stop both these disasters.

Annaram1 Fri 19-Apr-19 19:35:02

Sorry for typos!!!

PamelaJ1 Fri 19-Apr-19 19:44:39

Oh Varian you just had to mention Brexit.
This problem makes that political blip seem to be of no importance at all. I’d better add IMO!

Mini moon you are correct, the forests are most important , they must be reinstated.
I can’t begin to list the things that I don’t buy because palm oil appears in the list of ingredients.
Well I suppose I should, then contact the manufacturer to tell them why they have lost a sale. If we all did that it would have an impact.

Catlover123 Fri 19-Apr-19 19:46:33

go Foxygran!, I will be there next week because I care about the world that my grandchildren will inherit. Those of you who think it is unreasonable or criticise the demonstrations -watch David Attenborough's programme on climate change that was on last night! What grans can do can buy less, buy quality things and make them last, eat less red meat and dairy, don't waste food, try walking or cycling, have good house insulation and switch to a renewable energy supplier. The USA and China emit more carbon because they have larger populations, in China they manufacture much of what we buy. China has been in the forefront of solar panel technology. If everyone in the UK made those changes it would make a massive difference.

jura2 Fri 19-Apr-19 19:51:47

Pamela- Varian is right- it all is packaged together. Some of us are really upset and stressed about it all- not for ourselves, most of us here won't see the worst of it. But I love our grandchildren so much, and nature in all its forms- and are really upset that our generation has benefited from so much and are responsible for what happens next. The 'B' word for me is all about the rise of the far right all over the world, and in Europe - it goes far far beyond just 'B' or no 'B'.

Callistemon Fri 19-Apr-19 19:57:51

^ I don’t suppose there are many on GN who would say “I would willingly give up having grandchildren in order to save the planet” even those who are worried about the planet their grandchildren will inherit.^

That is not our choice to make, anyway.

Callistemon Fri 19-Apr-19 20:01:33

I believe in the Gaia theory that the earth has a way of regulating itself
I am going to research that starbird, as I am curious about the periods of warming and freezing that has been a feature of the earth over the years.

Interesting that Emma Thomson has named her daughter Gaia - is that a sign of optimism that the earth will self-regulate?

Pamela do you have a list of items that are made with unsustainable palm oil?
I do know that some palm oil is sourced sustainably.

PamelaJ1 Fri 19-Apr-19 20:14:29

Callistemon- no I don’t but I do read the ingredient list of all the food and products that I buy. It does add to the time it takes to shop! The products using sustainable palm oil state that fact, at least I suppose they do, I don’t even buy them. Why on earth would one need palm oil in garlic bread or crumble mix?
I told a friend who called in today to stop his engine whilst we chatted, he did and then asked why! I don’t understand why he didn’t know. A huge percentage of our population seem to be able to avoid all the difficult information out there.
Jura- global warming will affect the rest of the world, not just Europe. We all have to work together. If only we could and are prepared to.

Callistemon Fri 19-Apr-19 20:15:10

What worries me too (but I try not to stress about it) is that one of the super volcanoes may erupt, eg the one in Yellowstone Park - which would cause a global catastrophe causing global chilling and failure of crops and worldwide famine.

Callistemon Fri 19-Apr-19 20:16:44

Why on earth would one need palm oil in garlic bread or crumble mix?
Goodness knows. One would assume it is bread, butter, garlic and herbs.
I have never bought crumble mix but I have bought garlic bread whereas I used to make my own.

Anja Fri 19-Apr-19 20:31:05

Palm oil! In everything from biscuits to soap. And yes, this is relevant to climate change as the rainforests they destroy are the lungs of the planet and soak up vast amounts of CO2.

I’m sure people would buy palm oil free food and cosmetics if they were given the choice.

My soap is palm oil free from Neal’s Yard ...very nice try it.

Buy a breadmaker, then you know what’s in it...and no plastic wrapping.

Biscuits...Sainsbury’s do a very nice ‘all butter’ range.

There’s a few tips to get palm oil virgins started.

Any more tips gratefully received.

Bridgeit Fri 19-Apr-19 20:48:30

We may be able to slow things up a bit, but we will not stop the inevitable.

lemongrove Fri 19-Apr-19 21:29:57

To the OP....only you know if you feel you are being unreasonable to be stressed by this matter.
I don’t think anyone should be stressed by it ( doesn’t mean that you can’t think about it, worry about it a bit and do your own best for the planet.)

Anja Fri 19-Apr-19 22:10:06

Bridgeit sadly you are correct, there is simply not the will.

DINNNO Fri 19-Apr-19 22:26:43

I suppose the decrease in births, makes up for the increase in births, a bit.

I agree with the law of 1 kid only. It's not fair on future generations to be destroying the planet. They will have to live through the decrease in resources, IF they live through it, and billions of people might not have the ability to have kids of their own because it will destroy the planet further, leaving no resources for themselves. but I suppose that will happen closer to ''the end'', if that even exists.

Callistemon Fri 19-Apr-19 22:59:34

My soap is palm oil free from Neal’s Yard ...very nice try it.
I really like the Neal's Yard products but I don't think that most people can afford to buy them at about £8 or £9 for a bar of soap - I hope to get some as a present though.

HillyN Fri 19-Apr-19 23:26:05

My OH will hate me for saying this, but why oh why is motor racing still allowed to continue? Cars drive round and round in circles burning vast quantities of fossil fuels for no purpose other than to see who can stick it out the longest and beat other drivers by a few milliseconds. Then they pack all the cars and equipment up and ship or fly them across the world to repeat it somewhere else!

maddyone Fri 19-Apr-19 23:58:01

Anna, we often see comments in the ‘news/politics’ section about food banks, the poor, the homeless and so on. Neals Yard is extremely expensive, do you honestly think most of the population could actually afford it?

Maggiemaybe Sat 20-Apr-19 00:00:31

I don't think that most people can afford to buy them at about £8 or £9 for a bar of soap

Just so, Callistemon. For those of us with a more modest budget, who'd prefer to support a small company, these soaps are every bit as environment friendly, and also very nice. Just over £2 a bar. I've recommended the Friendly company's shampoo bars on another thread. I'm not connected to the makers, honestly. smile Just very impressed by their products as well as their commitment and ethics.

maddyone Sat 20-Apr-19 00:01:32

Just had a quick check, Neals Yard soap is selling on Amazon for £8.75 for one block of soap.
Just saying.

Lilyflower Sat 20-Apr-19 07:04:25

The green movement is, like Marxism, another political movement which seeks to control its followers by brainwashing them. I am not so fearful of climate change as I am of eco terrorism which, I can see from posts and comments above, has already recruited from what the Marxists used to call ‘ useful idiots’.

How is the forceful prevention of ordinary, hardworking, taxpaying citizens from pursuing their livelihoods and living their lives in London anything but a semi and sometimes downright criminal act?

I realise that this view is not going to be popular but I can assure readers that I am well informed on the issue and that if one distinguishes between primary science and sources and green political agitation the message that ‘our planet is dying’ is largely hype to be followed by a clampdown on the rights and freedoms we currently enjoy.

Anja Sat 20-Apr-19 07:12:15

First of all the bars of soap I buy at Neal’s Yard are £6.50 in their shops so let’s get our facts straight and secondly, like everything else in this world, demand drives availability.

When more people start demanding palm oil free soap, as one example, then the big companies will start producing cheap ones.

Lilyflower where on earth do you get that odd idea from. The Green Movement is like Marxism ? I think you have been brainwashed. As someone whose first degree was in Environmental Science I assure you that your ideas are totally bonkers and you have been reeled in by some weird little political group.

Anja Sat 20-Apr-19 07:14:29

PS thanks for that link Maggiemaybe it’s always helpful to find these friendly sites.

dogsmother Sat 20-Apr-19 08:05:50

Lilflower , well said.
Emma Thompson flying in laughing at the idea of going economy when asked by the reporter!
It’s all too contrived for me too.
We can all do our bit and the rest is education for boys and girls.

Apricity Sat 20-Apr-19 08:09:30

When someone sneers at another poster who was just sharing her enjoyment in using a quality soap it reminds me of the inverted snobbery depicted in the famous Monty Python sketch - you know the one where they all compete for who had the most miserable, deprived childhood and who lived in the deepest, darkest pothole in the road with umpteen other people.

Climate change is the Really Big Issue here not petty sniping about someone else's soap.

Sophiesox Sat 20-Apr-19 08:16:04

Lilyflower, I agree (although I’m whispering it!). I hate waste, having been raised by a mother who lived through WW11. I reuse, recycle as much as I can. I never travel abroad, unlike Dame Emma Thomson, who’d ‘Just flown in from Los Angeles.’ I’m very concerned when I hear about 10 year old children worrying about climate change. Is it any wonder there are so many young, sometimes very young, people/children suffering from mental health problems. It’s a bandwagon unfortunately and people are easily persuaded to jump on them. Next year there’ll be another one.

gillybob Sat 20-Apr-19 08:25:54

Blimey who on earth could afford to pay £8-£9 for a bar of soap? I would expect to cook 2-3 midweek meals for that !

Urmstongran Sat 20-Apr-19 08:32:25

We should all move here:
(from an article in the NYT)

Mother Nature’s Got Nothing On Duluth: A Harvard University climate adaptation expert provides reasons why people in the future should consider moving to Duluth, Minnesota, “the most climate-proof city in America,” to escape the inevitable extreme heat and rising sea levels that will make places like Miami, Florida and New Orleans, Louisiana uninhabitable. Even with global warming the region around the Great Lakes will remain relatively cool. By 2080, even with somewhat high concentrations of carbon dioxide emissions, Duluth’s climate is expected to shift to something like that of Toledo, Ohio, with summer highs maxing out in the mid-80s Fahrenheit. Cooler temperatures mean a reduced risk of wildfires compared to the West and Southwest. And being inland means it’s mostly protected from the effects of sea level rise. Overall, considering Duluth’s cold temperatures, abundance of fresh water from Lake Superior, and industrial infrastructure, it’s the ideal climate refuge.

Grammaretto Sat 20-Apr-19 08:39:16

We should all be worried but There's a limit to how many worries we can have at any one time.
My old nana used to say she had a worry a week.
The climate protests are necessary and important to wake people up to the crisis.
Marching and shouting are no longer my way of protesting but I can and should do other things and hopefully set an example to others that you can enjoy a holiday that doesn't include flying or driving. That you still can shop in independent shops and not use the giant supermarkets all the time and grow our own veg and flowers.
Life is a balance though and who wants to be a spoilsport.