Empathy for Our Queen? ( As a Mother)

We will never know the truth .

He lied . And I doubt the girls who have come forward recently with the lawyer.

He said he had been to Epstein’s island, next day a Jane Doe
gives and interview saying Epstein had invited her to the island saying Andrew and others would be there, she didn’t go.

Day after Virginia’s interview a witness comes forward to say
she remembers seeing Andrew in Tramp that night 18 years
ago.

There is going to be much more coming out because of all the women involved. PA may not have committed a crime in the UK because she was legally of age, but his reputation is in tatters. And there were lengthy visits to Epstein's properties where large numbers of young girls were seen coming and going on a regular basis, whether during his visits we don't know. Those girls will all be talking, and what they will say regarding PA remains to be seen. Already they have said he had massages. He just says he saw people coming and going, but what for he didn't know!

There will be some queuing to get into the court ?

Yes the case they want to bring is against Epstein's estate I gather. But a lot of background will be covered. Andrew is wanted for that as a witness.

The press just report the bits they fancy. The only way to really do it is sit there from gavel to gavel and see everything the jury see, and more. I have done that with some really interesting cases. Housework build up, husband goes hungry but.. lol

We don’t televise trials but they are open to the press, and
what reason for a trial ?

Andrew can’t be charged with child abuse or trafficking, she was 17 , is looking very happy in the photograph and said she
wanted the photograph taken because she was with a royal.

The only trial can be suing Epstein’s estate , in America surely ?

Doesn't sound good at all, Chestnut. Anniebach yes in america. If it was in UK we'd probably not hear it at all since we don't televise our trials

ReadyMeals - her father was in contact with her when she was offered work with Epstein. It's all a bit vague but at the time she was working at the same place as her father and they used to have lunch together. This is after she'd been physically and sexually abused from the age of seven, and homeless! Apparently they both thought Epstein's offer to train her as a masseuse seemed like a good idea and the father willingly let him whisk her away.

In America not in the U.K.

Wut??? I am talking about the current case that she and her peers are trying to mount. The manner by which she came into Epstein's influence would be covered by that.

How can it come to court ? She was 17 .

What can he be charged with ?

I think once her family got involved it wasn't particularly helpful to her. Also could raise speculation that the dad was the original abuser. Though that doesn't excuse Epstein, Maxwell, or Mountbatten-Windsor. And if she wasn't living at home how did the father hand her over to anyone? I hope this comes to court properly cos I really want to hear all this explained in detail!!

Re the interview with her father where he said he met Epstein and in effect handed over his 16 year old daughter to the multi-millionaire for training as a masseuse. He didn't seem to think this was odd at the time. He never mentioned in his interview that she was abused from the age of 7 or had been homeless as a young teenager which she said in her interview.

I was shocked because as her father this man should have been protecting her, and yet he now has the gall to come on TV and comment on the awful things that happened to her with PA. What about what happened to her as a child??? Where was he then???

Incidentally, her father also said in his interview that he knew nothing about her being abused before PA because she was a very good actress which was probably not a good thing to say when she has just gone public with her side of the story

Seems both are not being truthful.

I know she was abused, because she was a sex worker while underage, which is abuse by the adults controlling her and/or the adults using her services. Also I am ready to believe that she was abused as a younger child. And a person can be honest, or a little dishonest or completely dishonest as a completely separate character trait whether or not they were abused. As I scrutinised Andrew for anything in his story that might not totally add up, it seemed fair to do the same to Virginia. That just happened to be one point in her story I'd want to know more about before feeling totally sure in my heart who, if any of them, is telling the complete truth.

I did not mean personally as seemed clear from my post, but you seem to have assumed I meant that Readymeals, sorry.

Even happy families can have a friend, a relative - children may be abused then told mall kinds of things which could happen to their parents if they told and because they love their parents they do not tell them.

That is a simple example but I hope will help you understand.

My question was have you come across many abused children professionally, not personally.

That is not another question, btw, just an explanation.

I'd never stereotype anyone who had an abuse experience. It's their experience and we all respond differently to our life experiences, we may react differently at different times.

The significant difficulty faced by those involved in prosecuting allegations of csa includes the point you make ReadyMeals. That it's hard to persuade a jury/a Court, the public that an alleged victim is telling the truth in allegations against an alleged perpetrator, if the victim can be found to have ever, at any time, to have either been dishonest, or got dates/times mixed up so appeared dishonest.

Even if she knew what she was doing and was wise to it all, she was still a victim, since she was underage. I think the point I am trying to make is that if she says anything at all that seems questionable as to the truth, then it would make me wonder how much of her story about Andrew is true.

NB it wasn't you who asked twice, but it still seems a bit intrusive.

Callistemon yes of course I know that. But if she couldn't turn to her parents for protection at that time, and therefore had to run away from home altogether, it leaves room for a question in my mind that they all seem a happy family now. I never said it proved she was lying, I just think it evens the balance of doubt a little. Both she and Andrew have revealed things that would make me want more questions answered before I decided that one of them was telling the truth. As to what experience I have of sexual abuse, you've asked me twice now and I want to point out as politely as possible that I don't want to share that with these forums at this time and I think it's a bit pushy to ask twice when it's apparent someone doesn't want to say.

If he did, we don’t know yet , and if he did have sex with her doesn’t mean he paid for it

It should not matter if VG was a very innocent, unworldly virgin, a knowing mum looking for a bit of fun or an abused and vulnerable young adult. If PA used the person as a prostitute then he should have the courage to admit his human failing once found out. What I find so disappointing from public figures is their lack of honesty! Poor example.. which in his position he should be mindful of.. or renounce all duties and live on your own earnings as a private citizen.

Sorry, grammar

ReadyMeals do you not realise that it is often another relative or a close family friend, who is the abuser and often the parents just have no clue about what is going on?

Incidentally, how many people have you met or worked with who was abused as a child?

Iam64 you can't just stereotype every abused child. It doesn't matter how many abused children I have met, Virginia Giuffre is an individual with her own experiences and aspirations