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Opinions please?

(18 Posts)
Parcellady Sat 12-Jun-21 20:08:57

I brought a run down property for £700000 in 2014 with a run down barn, my Mum passed away in 2015 leaving my elderly father 80 in a 3 bedroom house alone!
My mum suggested to him before she passed away that he should sell their house and move over to our house and live in a caravan splitting the property money between me and my 4 siblings if she passed away!
He said he wanted to do this after a very lonely year without my mum so I paid for a static caravan for him to move into with his little dog and we agreed to convert the barn into an annex for him!
The agreement was that he would put £50000 into the conversion and we would put the rest of the money into the building creating 2 small bungalows one for him to live in and one for us to rent out!
The conversion took a year so he lived in the caravan bill free for that 1st year his dog pissed on everything in the caravan so we had to rip out all the carpets etc when he moved out so that cost us another chunk of money!
My question is this? We agreed he would live in the building rent free should that also include bill free?
He doesn’t pay anything towards the council tax bill which is £2800 a year he does pay his own electricity as he has a separate supply into his bungalow!
He was getting the tv license free because he is over 75 but he refuses to pay that now as it isn’t free anymore so now we have to pay it.
We also pay all the insurance bills/water bills and the cost of the sewage removal and all the costs involved in maintaining and updating our house and garden!
We live on a private lane we also pay all the costs for filling in pot holes etc in our lane he doesn’t pay towards anything!
The list of things we pay for is endless...
7 years in and every penny we get has been put into our home whilst my Dad gets more money a week than we get between us as my husband also does not work due to health issues!
My health has now also started to deteriorate this last year and I am now struggling to work the same amount of hours to support my husband/house and 2 teenage children so it seems unfair that my Dad gets more money than we do as a family but spends his money down the betting shop whilst we are struggling to keep our heads above water with everything!
Also he didn’t put in the agreed £50,000 he put in £40,000 and he didn’t share the proceeds of his house out he gave my 4 siblings £10,000 each..
We didn’t agree the money he put into our house was my inheritance but he has since decided that it is and he has also decided that any remaining money in his account will be left to my siblings cutting me out of his will because he said we have a property worth more money than there homes!
They have all enjoyed lots of holidays eating out and new cars over the last 7 years whilst we have gone without and they all have better pensions than us!
My question is am I being fair expecting him to contribute towards bills? I asked him for £20 a week but he decided he isn’t paying that and is going to pay £25 a month also his dog has started pissing on walls and doors in the bungalow now so I am annoyed as he won’t pay to mend or replace anything he just denies that his dog has done it!
Help! this is stressing me and my husband right out and now I feel like giving him back his money and telling him to move out but I don’t want to be unreasonable!
What do people here think about my situation?

Newatthis Sat 12-Jun-21 20:16:08

Mmmmm....always rows with regard to inheritance. Too late to get it down on paper or it would seem, any money from him. What a dilemma. All this has only been verbally agreed (am i right?) so it doesn't look as if you have much comeback on this. What about talking with siblings, they might not be aware of what's going on. Sounds as if you are very angry (rightfully so) which might make it difficult to talk about it to your father but it needs talking out, perhaps your siblings might offer support or suggestions.

Newatthis Sat 12-Jun-21 20:17:32

You've posted this twice!

Savvy Sat 12-Jun-21 20:18:25

Do you have any of what was agreed in writing?

trisher Sat 12-Jun-21 20:26:35

I don't understand this. If the bungalow belongs to him and is a seperate property it can have its own postal address. All the bills therefore-council tax, TV licence, sewage and water charges become his responsibility and if he doesn't pay them he will finish up being evicted. If the bungalow belongs to you it can still have a seperate address and he is a tenant so is still responsible for the bills. No one can make you pay them. Just stop paying.

Callistemon Sat 12-Jun-21 20:28:10

7 years in and every penny we get has been put into our home whilst my Dad gets more money a week

If your property cost £700,000 in 2014 and has been renovated it must be worth well over £1m now.

If you do not have much income it might make sense to sell up and find somewhere for yourselves with perhaps a Grandad annexe. Or calculate how much his £40,000 investment in the property has increased and sell up, giving him his increased amount.

Callistemon Sat 12-Jun-21 20:29:36

He was getting the tv license free because he is over 75 but he refuses to pay that now as it isn’t free anymore so now we have to pay it.

No, you don't.

Parcellady Sat 12-Jun-21 20:30:46

Sorry it is difficult to write down all the information the bungalow is an annex to my property so doesn’t have a separate council tax bill!
Also all the agreements were verbal so nothing written on paper anywhere!

trisher Sat 12-Jun-21 23:01:59

Parcellady

Sorry it is difficult to write down all the information the bungalow is an annex to my property so doesn’t have a separate council tax bill!
Also all the agreements were verbal so nothing written on paper anywhere!

If he is a pensioner living in your home then you should claim a second adult rebate www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/help-if-on-a-low-income/help-with-your-council-tax-council-tax-reduction/council-tax-reduction-and-second-adult-rebate/

NotSpaghetti Sun 13-Jun-21 00:57:49

Do you also have a TV? Surely if he's just in an annex and he'sbasicallyliving with you, one will suffice for both TVs? Maybe I'm wrong?

CafeAuLait Sun 13-Jun-21 01:11:25

First, I'd stop paying his TV license. If you can't make ends meet and he has a lot of money coming in, I think it is fair to give him an ultimatum. Tell him what needs to happen or he makes other arrangements. It might seem harsh but he is taking the mickey here and you need to live too.

BlueBelle Sun 13-Jun-21 07:16:13

Well that’s confusing I ve just written an answer now here’s another thread appearing ?
This wasn’t thought through at all I can’t believe you thought it was ok to not have a solicitor… £700,000 is a lot of money to be so casual about it would buy a small hotel in my area
You need a solicitor immediately to draw up what you want and expect
You probably don’t need two t v licences if his home is joined onto your building I don’t see why he should pay the council tax and pot holes tax which you would have to pay anyway

If he gave you £40 grand towards the house which is yours for ever and £10,000 to each sibling it does feel as if you’ve had your inheritance already you got £30 grand more than any of them

You re in a big old muddle and it’s going to make you very resentful and he and the dog are causing you stress You need a solicitor to sort this very very non agreement out as soon as possible
Good luck sounds a total nightmare

CafeAuLait Sun 13-Jun-21 07:50:54

CafeAuLait

First, I'd stop paying his TV license. If you can't make ends meet and he has a lot of money coming in, I think it is fair to give him an ultimatum. Tell him what needs to happen or he makes other arrangements. It might seem harsh but he is taking the mickey here and you need to live too.

When I wrote this I forgot he'd given you 40,000 towards the property. No ultimatums then. That wouldn't be fair unless you are prepared to pay him back. Day to day expenses though, he needs to help out. Rent is trickier since he's invested a lot of money in this property and you will benefit from it in the long run. I think you need to consult a lawyer at this stage to work out where his substantial financial contribution leaves you with what you can expect of him. And maybe make a realistic agreement moving forward, in writing.

ExD Sun 13-Jun-21 08:25:46

Your father is 80, I am 80 and know what it feels like), and although I'm sure I'm of 'sound mind' I accept I sometimes don't grasp the extent of other people's problems. I'm sure he hasn't given your financial standing a single passing thought.
Your house may we worth millions but that doesn't count, you struggle with day to day expenses and selling up isn't an option, while he spends lavishly on himself. Its not on.
However, you've been advised to get legal help so you really are going to have to find some money and get a solicitor involved.
Tell your Dad you're struggling with day to day living expenses, and that you're going to get his tenancy agreement put in writing. Realistically he may not have many years left, and when he does go your siblings could (probably won't) claim some of his estate and want part of his annex????
Anyway, tell your Dad about the solicitor so it doesn't come as a shock, he may agree to pay his share of the cost, but get it signed and sealed whatever you do, it'll be money well spent.
(we are farmers and know what it's like to be "land rich but cash poor" as they say)

Oopsadaisy1 Sun 13-Jun-21 09:03:01

TBH, as your father pays his own Electricity costs, I’m sure his other costs would be minimal and as he has refused to pay them I don’t know what you can do.
The potholes are your responsibility as it’s your road and you would have to pay for the upkeep anyway, ditto the sewage, the Council tax would be minimal as it’s for a dependent relative ( check with your local Council)
Your father has also paid £40k towards the Annexe, so in theory you have had some of your inheritance, (as long as it’s in your name, so that he cant leave it to anyone else) let’s hope it’s in your name otherwise that’s a whole different scenario.
The money he spends on himself is his right , I’m assuming it’s his pension and he has worked hard for it, so allow him to do as he pleases, else he might come into your house and plonk himself down with his dog and that would drive you crazy too.
I also assume that he looks after himself , cooking , cleaning etc. If not you could claim carers allowance.
The fact that you are now unable to cope with illness and the costs involved in keeping your property and your teenage children, are really not his problem.
I’m sure you would be on very shaky ground if you even tried to evict an elderly relative from a property that they helped to pay for.
When he dies you will still have a property to rent out.( The problems might start if he has to go into care as if the property is in his name it might have to be sold.)

It just shows that Solicitors advice before building an annexe for a relative is vital.
Either way, I’m sorry that you seem to be stuck in a situation that doesn’t sound as though it will improve with time.
We were going to do a similar thing for our DD, but after speaking to a Solicitor we realised that it was just too complicated, there are so many considerations to take into account, it was a minefield.

HurdyGurdy Sun 13-Jun-21 09:20:23

I’m struggling to understand the layout of the property (properties). You say that the bungalow your father is living in is part of your house. So as it doesn’t have it’s own address, it won’t have it’s own council tax bill, and therefore having him living there isn’t increasing your council tax liability. You’d be paying that amount whether he was living there or not.

Your own TV licence should cover his TV also, as the annexe is part of your home. So he’s not costing you anything extra in TV licence fees.

You agreed to convert the run-down barn into a home for him, yet you have created two bungalows. Does that mean he’s actually living in a property half the size he expected? Plus you are benefiting from the rental income of the other bungalow, which has come partly from his investment/estate.

What happened to the caravan he was previously living in? Do you still have that? Do you rent that out, or did you sell it, and recoup some of your money from that?

I don’t know why you feel he should contribute towards the maintenance of the lane. He’s not directly responsible for any potholes, and has already been pointed out, you would be paying for this maintenance anyway, so he’s not costing you anything extra for that.

If you’re not viewing his £40,000 investment into your conversion as part of your inheritance, then how DO you view it? How will your siblings access their share of this money in future? If you and your husband/children will be owners of the bungalow he's currently occupying, and will still have it for future rentals, then you’re ultimately benefiting from £40,000 of his estate that your siblings are not sharing in.

You say, in relation to your siblings – “They have all enjoyed lots of holidays eating out and new cars over the last 7 years whilst we have gone without and they all have better pensions than us!” Have you done without these things and not invested in pensions because of your father? Or because your own financial circumstances didn’t allow it? You seem very bitter about this, whilst overlooking the investment your father has made into your property, and which it seems you will ultimately benefit from.

The property will have increased in value since you purchased it, and have renovated it, so you have that as your “pension” as you could sell and downsize.

Is your father fully aware of your financial circumstances? If not, then write down all your income and outgoings, and show him HOW you are unable to continue to subsidise him and that you really need him to make a reasonable contribution towards the bills. Involve your siblings in the conversation if you feel you need “back up”. Seeing something written down in black and white can often be a “reality check” and he may then be amenable to making a contribution.

ValerieF Sun 13-Jun-21 20:19:47

If it was my 80 year old dad I would pay anything and everything for him if I had the chance to do it but he died 2 years ago Can’t offer you any advice as I find it upsetting.

Callistemon Sun 13-Jun-21 20:29:57

ValerieF good sentiments.

My DM lived with us and did pay her keep in her own way but yes, treasure those times, OP.