Hitting a child. Can anyone here defend it?

I don't remember any corporal punishment at school. I think some boys did get caned at the then new comprehensive school I joined in 1959. I was not by nature a naughty child.
When I was about three or four I remember being smacked on a few occasions.

In nursery school I had my hand slapped by a"teacher" as I was walking my fingers up and down the cupboard door and not having my afternoon nap.

My mum slapped my bare bum one time when I climbed back into the bath just as she had just dried me off, we all laughed at the red hand mark!

My Dad slapped me once when I bit his arm. The reason for biting I remember giving him, was that he was talking to my sister and not me!

Reading to the accounts below I was clearly very lucky.

I followed Elegran's ethos. Seemed to work as I only smacked DD1 once, maybe twice after the warnings had been given. She then must have warned the other two when they came along as I don't remember ever smacking them.

When I was little my mother would berate me verbally, spitting venom and the not speak to me for what seemed like forever until my father got home when, after a lecture I would be sent to my room usually with no tea. I was left feeling an inadequate failure. I think if diversion or explanations fail, a warning, a quick smack and a "don't do it again" and then move on is far preferable.

My two had an occasional smack but by the time they were both at school they seemed to be open to reason and smacking never came into it. My grandson who is six has never been smacked by anyone, but has been in trouble at school for hurting other children - so I'm not sure about hitting children teaching them to hit others. They seem to get the idea anyway. I have to admit that sometimes, during one of his long and involved arguments about why he shouldn't do what he's told, I do think a quick smack would sort this out in two minutes.

Yes deedaa, an occasional light smack reinforced the point already made politely in words. It was not an alternative to reason, more a restatement that you did really mean that it was time to stop.

If you watch a mother cat or dog with an obstreperous youngster who will not stop pestering her, she will give them a light cuff with claws drawn in - nowhere near the blows she will used in a serious fight.

You can call it a slight slap, a little tap or a smack but it's still hitting a child. Is it all right for a husband to give his wife a light slap on her thighs if she does something that he considers wrong?

There has been a change in culture since I had my own children. Forty years ago it was quite acceptable to give children a slap on the legs if you felt it helped to reinforce discipline. Even teachers were allowed to do this. Now it is quite unacceptable. My grandchildren have never been hit and they are sufficiently well behaved for their age and level of understanding.
I think that 'good' parents have always taught their children what is acceptable and what s not acceptable behaviour. What methods they used did not really matter as these parents would never go to extremes, they used their common sense and worked within the boundaries of the culture of their time. Conversely 'poor' parents either over-disciplined their children, or never applied any restrictions or, possibly worst of all, blew hot and cold, leaving the child confused. What matters are consistency of approach, helping the child to learn self-discipline and leaving the child understanding that even if the behaviour is not acceptable they themselves are still loved and valued.

Agreed, Jodi "What matters are consistency of approach, helping the child to learn self-discipline and leaving the child understanding that even if the behaviour is not acceptable they themselves are still loved and valued."

My post may have made it look as though I made a habit of disciplining my children with punishment. Nothing could be further from the truth. They may amongst them have had half-a-dozen smacks in their lives, administered after verbal reprimands and strategic manoevres had made no impression, and after due warning that that behaviour was not acceptable, never that they were wicked children. The reason for its unacceptability was always made clear - usually something which endangered themselves or their siblings, or was potentially destructive.

They became sensible, thoughtful and responsible children and then adults.

In John Lewis a few days ago, I passed a woman who had found her daughter (about 8) who had wandered away from her. She was delivering a fraught diatribe on how bad it was of the child not to stay by her side, how wicked and selfish the girl was. I would not have put it that way myself, but did not interfere. Half an hour later on the way out, I saw them again a little way off. By then she was lecturing the child (who was hunched up in that "I have to stand here but I am not listening to you" position) on how she must learn to control herself! I suspect that whatever way she disciplined her children, she would over-do it, and they would end up paying no attention to her.

A quick slap is often more appropriate. It's done and over with and the point is made but it depends on the circumstances and of course the person administering it - and that is the problem. Most of us are sensible but there are some who enjoy being sadistic or can't regulate their actions. That's when it's so wrong. Like in so many areas of life, it is those uncontrolled people who spoil life for the rest of us.

How does hitting a child teach self-discipline?

I am shocked and saddened by some of these posts.

How do children learn to hit? I am intrigued that children brought up in an utterly non-violent home are prepared to hit their siblings for possession of a toy. Where do they see examples of this behaviour?

absent As a child brought up in Scotland in the post war era, I was spanked if naughty by my parents and given the strap at school. It only happened a few times as it did teach me to stop and think next time and so I learned self-discipline.

PS Anno I think perhaps it's instinctive not learned behaviour initially???

Jodi Are you sure you simply didn't learn to fear being hit or beaten if you did or said a certain thing?

As so often - from the sublime to the utter ridiculous.

We, (OH and myself) very very occasionally gave our two a tap on the legs, fingers of bottom - always in a controlled manner- when the situation really seemed appropriate. And I would never consider this to be 'hitting' a child, and much more effective than the hours of discussion and naughty steps we witness so often today. Common sense should prevail.

Oh course I didn't want to be smacked again. I wasn't beaten. It hurt a bit and but it wasn't fear. It was a much lesser emotion than fear. It was 'ouch'!
You learn in many ways. If you burn yourself you learn to avoid hot things. If you trip and fall you learn to look where you put your feet. If you are nasty to someone and they retaliate you learn to be more diplomatic or take the consequences. If you earn your parents' displeasure you learn to modify your behaviour.
This is completely different from being beaten for bad behaviour, or in the case of some poor unfortunates, being beaten just because the parent is in a bad mood, drunk, power crazy, etc.

granjura I don't understand your post – what is sublime and what is ridiculous?

If you are hit frequently for a minor offence, committed once, or for something you could not help (wetting the bed, for instance, or dropping something) or because a parent got out of bed on the wrong side or was feeling vindictive because they had been abused themselves, then yes, you learn to fear unfair punishment.

If you were always treated fairly and expected to be fair to others, and occasionally - occasionally - were warned that you were being antisocial enough to get fair punishment, and still persisted and got what had been promised, then you would not learn fear, but co-operation, and that if you want others to repect your rights you must respect theirs.

People did not refrain from murder because they feared the death penalty, when it existed, but because they had respect for the right to life of others.

anno children don't seem to learn to hit - in the case of my grandsons it comes naturally and they started by sinking their teeth into each other, then progressd to bashing each other in the face at the age of one! We were horrified as they had never experienced or observed such behaviour. They wrestle now, but have watched this in other children.

My own children never fought, didn't have toys that encouraged fighting or shooting. They had friends who fought but weren't shown violence, and others who were allowed guns and cowboy outfits but have grown into peaceful adults.

Elegantly put *elegran'

Some parents (particularly fathers) find it amusing when a baby they are holding hits them in the face or pokes a finger into their eye, and laugh and encourage them. I would say "No" quietly but firmly and put them down.

Elegran Wise words...

Me too, Elegran. So many things, like throwing babies in the air, tipping them upside down and tickling them mercilessly, make me cringe. My sons and SIL warn male visitors to go carefully, but it took some time to get them to realise you don't treat babies like that, even if they do laugh.

Elegran It's like men who encourage their toddler boys to "play" fight. It makes me shudder.
It can progress into poorly disguised bullying when the man fails to understand when rough play should stop and the little boy does not want to admit to the probably rather aggressive male he doesn't like it.

I suspect a lot of physical abuse caused to young children by Mum's new male "boyfriend" starts like this. Perhaps its like male lions with a new pride who kill any cubs that are not of their bloodline.

When I was visiting the Zoo once I saw a man holding up quite a young child to see over a wall. He was pretending he was going to throw her over and then stepping back at the last minute, over and over. She was clinging tightly on to him between laughing and sobbing. He clearly thought she was enjoying it - and was himself enjoying the power, and her helplessness as she clung. With this early training would she, in fifteen or twenty years time, love the excitement of a relationship with a dangerous powerful man?

I did smack my daughters when I occasionally lost it. Am not proud of the fact but they seem OK now and do not seem to hold a grudge. I recall being smacked twice as a child for being rude.
Would /could never do it as a thought out punishment! As a teacher I have never wanted to smack a child as I did not take poor behaviour personally although i have been 'assaulted' and sworn at on many occasion.

Re children and violent play I think it is natural: watch a litter of pups and kittens... they do it too! Just because all those kids played cowboys and indians when I was little did not breed a generation of gunslingers! My brother was always playing WW2 resistance fighter games with his polish pal and our younger brother always had to be the Nazi officer they tied up and shot. All are the gentlest of men now! I think we can be over sensitive and anything that is discouraged to vehemently to kids often becomes exiting to pursue! better to 'play' it than do it!