Making a man out of a boy

What an excellent idea, nanaej. I have found that when 'needy' people are told they must manage on their own, they do. As long as they are allowed to be childlike, they will never grow up. I think some tough love is called for. I found out too late that I had been wrong to allow my daughter to escape the consequences of her actions, right from the time she was a child and I wrote her a note whenever she wanted to get out of games or swimming.

cathy you are spoiling your son. If you read the thread about Ungrateful selfish daughter it sounds like your son, it's not that he can't cope, he doesn't have to. There were more posts on Telling our sad stories towards the end of the thread regarding the same poster.

Tough love I am afraid Cathy - you say it is your fault and you have to fix it - not strictly true. You will have to toughen up and plan strategies to encourage him to help himself - but unless he starts to take responsibility for his own life at 23 - how can he plan marriage and a family? Unlike some posters, I think 23 is plenty old enough to be standing on his own feet! Good luck, it won't be easy, but nature does intend us to kick them out of the nest, you know.

I was married at 18, my husband was 23, we had a mortgage and ran a car, and we would not have dreamed of asking our parents for any kind of help. I don't know why I did not insist on my own daughter standing on her own feet. I thought I was being loving, but in fact I was not doing her any favours. It is fine to be available in a crisis, but not to let your adult children depend on you all the time.

It is awfully tempting to step in a rescue them and I have done my fair share, but one thing it does not do is help them to grow up.
I managed some men once who were used to being mollycoddled by their previous manager (a man). They used to come in and ask me to do things for them.
e.g. Je-ess - will you call Liz in personell for me please and ask her if she can ...
Je-ess I've got to write a letter to this customer - will you draft it for me.

I used to refuse on the basis it was not in their best interests to be looked after as if they were children. Easier with staff than with sons though.

nanej spot on!

Left home to go to uni; parents supplied their assessed contribution to grant; uni finished and I was told I had to stand on my own two feet and no help would be forthcoming. I never once turned to my parents for loans/gifts. That all seemed entirely fair to me - I soemtimes struggled, but I learned how to cope.

Heavens, if I had bought my son a new car and give him £100 a month, I would say a firm no to be "yelled at"!!

Not a gender issue I think - more learned dependence. It may be that girls cope better, who knows?!

Married at 22 graduated at 23. Had a mortgage and a car. We did everything on our own without any help at all!

Of course you did galen - you were an adult and presumably your parents expected you to behave like one!

I am there to support my children if they need it - but they are adults with their own lives. They know we love them - we do not have to dole out handouts to prove it.

OK - we provide the occasional treat (went shopping with DD3 yesterday and bought the baby a sweet summer dress) and make an offer of help if we can see a need has arisen (e.g. we paid for my DD's kitchen to be fitted) - but these are gifts that come from us and are not expected or assumed - and never asked for.

Ditto. Except it was a bathroom and I can never resist buying things for DGD!
I get ticked off for it all the time

I absolutely agree that as adults they should stand on their own feet and you are doing more harm that good, however it was very difficult for me and we had not help either and I just do not want my son to suffer as I did, does that make any sense.

I like others was married and had a home of my own at 23 and was working full time (no babies). We did not expect anything form our families but we got love and support but not in a financial or 'doing it for us' way. My parents still had two children at home so not a lot of spare cash and my husbands parents were semi retired and had little finance to spare so not an option! They were always generous at birthday /Christmas and my mum bought me a twin tub when I had first baby so I did not need to go to the laundrette. I have given my girls some (limited) financial help with deposits for houses but they did not expect it or ask for it. We offered as we were fortunate to be able to do so. I never yelled at my mum... except once as a teenager..she could not stand my false piety when I had gone to a Billy Graham rally! She was right!

Nanaej - I think I would have liked your mother!

Haha! greatnan she was a very practical & loving woman..left school at 14 did a secretarial /book keeping course. She always despaired of my poor dad who was not very practical with finances and she used to say in frustration, 'I don't know how you got so far' He was a barrister! A non-judgemental woman too... she married a 'foreigner' and moved to London!!

Cathy
Please try to come to terms that everyone is different. I appreciate what you are trying to ask but the truth is that some men are self sustaining and others need help. Your son will learn in time if he has an interest and will to.
My son left for Uni at 18 and has never returned home. Now at 31 he has a lovely home, a lovely girlfriend / partner an excellent job and has made us all proud. However he still asks me for help to do what I would consider basic tasks in the DIY department but then I reflect that everything is easy but only when you know how.
Your son will learn to do what he needs to do in time. It is not a case of toughing up and as for calling him soft I think that is a bit harsh. He might be a caring considerate person which is to be commended.
I would be thankfull that he still feels he can rely on his parents and I'm sure he loves you for it.
Try to leave the rough, tough and hard to bluff images in Hollywood where they belong and be thankful your son still needs you.
I wish you the very best.

Thank you ps for your comments. I wish he was caring but un fortunately for me and his Dad he is not.

An example, as mentioned I have bought him a car, I could not afford to buy two cars and so just bought one for him, I was stranded last week because I was given a lift to my cousins but then could not get back so I phoned him and asked could he pick me up as it was just a 15 minute drive from his house to were I was, and he sent me a text saying that I was annoying

I do get what you say about the Hollywood thing and I must say that you are right, I can be a bit expecting of men to be strong sometimes and have defentley been working on that as you are not the only one that has mentioned that.

I do love my son and would give him my last breath but I must teach him somehow how to be a better person.

I sincerely hope that you texted him back, Cathy, to say that he was even more annoying than you, since it was your money that bought the car in the first place! Without it, HE would be the one stranded and wanting YOU to pick him up. And you would have done, wouldn't you?

You gave up the chance to have a car yourself so that he could have one, and he grudges using it to help you? Sheesh! That makes me angry.

If he acts as though he does not know these facts, then it is definitely time that he learned them, plus a few more home truths. Family help and loyalty is a two-way street.

A doormat is a very useful object - but a mother is not a substitute!

I know Elegran but what can you do, its like they say you love them because they are your children but you don't always necessary like who they are and I am so tired of his ways but as said I do feel it is my job to teach him to be kinder BUT its so nice to hear you say that he was in the wrong to say I was annoying I was so upset when I got that text and could not believe he had the guts to send it.

What do you mean, ps when you say she "should be thankful her son still wants her?" Should she be grateful that he accepts all that she gives him and repays it with surliness and shouts at her?

Do you mean that as a woman she should be like patient Griselda in the fairy tale and take any treatment that is meted out to her and still keep providing a home, meals, goods and money for an able-bodied grown man and his girl?

I don't think ps meant to do any harm, he was just trying to help E

Cathy If you are tired of his ways, then it is time you made him change them. He will not change on his own.

Why should he? He is very comfortable. He is looked after as though he were still a helpless child, but he has all the things a grown man wants - a car, a girlfriend, money in his pocket. A real grown man has to do something in return for these things - to own a car you need to earn some money, to have a live-in girlfriend you need to have somewhere to live, which means you have to pay rent.

If he has no work to pay for these things, and to put money in his pocket, but is relying on you to give him them, then he should be doing something for you.

What is there for him to do? Housework? Gardening? Driving you to work? If he thinks it is beneath him to tidy up after himself, wash dishes, peel potatoes, run a hoover over the floor or clean the bathroom, then he needs reminding that if he were lucky enough to have a place of his own all this would need to be done - and as he is receiving money he could look on it as a job.

How dare he repay your love and kindness with such surly ingratitude! cathy, try to distance yourself from this situation and think what you would say if this was a friend's son behaving this way. A mother's love can be tough love and it's not too late. By the way did you insure that car for him? If you did, please make him pay for the renewal.

mmmm you are right of course, a long process and I am not sure exactly where to start and the main problem is I have not got,, what shall we call it,, the guts? but I am getting there, have lean't to say NO more often now.

Apart from all the materialistic stuff this really hurts to think my own son can treat me this way, I did not get on too good with my Mum would would never ever treat her that way and by the way that was just one example there are more!

I had to drive him to a garage this morning because he did not know were it was and so I asked could he drop me off at the shops on the way back, he did not want to take me all the way to the shops and asked me to get out of the car and walk when we were still 20 minutes away! Oh dear its all coming out now and I could go on!!