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Lads' mags - what do we think?

(108 Posts)
GeraldineGransnet (GNHQ) Mon 03-Jun-13 15:12:17

We've been asked to support a campaign called "lose the lads' mags" which is being run by UK Feminista and Object and is calling on retailers to stop displaying and selling lads' mags.

So we wanted to canvass views...

The campaigners argue these magazines encourage the idea that women are objects and so help to create an atmosphere in which sexual violence becomes acceptable. A group of discrimination lawyers claims that the display of these images amounts to discrimination against women and breaches equality legislation.

So what do we think?

Bags Wed 05-Jun-13 21:40:57

Soory I misread. You meant know of, and I read know. Still, I don't think Minibags would know what prostitution is.

Bags Wed 05-Jun-13 21:39:35

Really, jess!!? shock Minibags doesn't know any, and I'd be very surprised if most of her peers did! A few might, but only a very few.

JessM Wed 05-Jun-13 20:54:31

Yes I think we were. 50 years anniversary of profumo. I was in first year secondary school and until then had never heard of prostitution. I bet there are not many 12 year olds today who do not know that some women do it for money.

Elegran Wed 05-Jun-13 13:31:08

We must have been very innocent in our youth.

Tegan Wed 05-Jun-13 13:19:14

I didn't know some of them were like that blush.

Elegran Wed 05-Jun-13 13:15:07

Depends on the mag. The ones with what used to be called "pinups" - pretty girls in a state of semi-nudity, remember Jane of the comic strip? - are fine, and good clean fun. Ones which show women servicing men in ways which humiliate them (the women - or indeed the men) are not.

Even the milder ones should be on a high shelf.

Tegan Wed 05-Jun-13 11:59:50

Well, I've always thought of myself as a feminist [an old uni friend of my husband's once decribed me as being liberated before liberation existed] but I can't say that lad's mags bother me, although female pop stars gyrating on stage semi clothed does. I've always rather felt that a man looking at a girlie mag was a bit like a woman reading a cookery book. I'd be interested in hearing what men feel about the proposal.

Stansgran Wed 05-Jun-13 11:37:44

BAnanas as the mother of two women and grandmother to three boys I endorse everything you've said. In fact I wish I could have written as succinctly as you have. And it is no good blaming the Star and the Sun alone. Sometimes The Times on Saturday and Sunday seem to feel they can get as near porn as they can.

whenim64 Tue 04-Jun-13 21:36:43

Well said, BAnanas!

j08 Tue 04-Jun-13 19:45:14

Still wrong hmm

j08 Tue 04-Jun-13 19:44:56

Sorry. BAnannas

j08 Tue 04-Jun-13 19:44:28

Bet you feel better for that BaNanas. smile

BAnanas Tue 04-Jun-13 19:24:32

I often ask myself why I used to get so angry about page 3 of The Sun back in the '70s when I was in my late teens and twenties and yet today if I happen on page 3 of this publication it just leaves me completely unmoved one way or the other. When I look back I think it was all to do with the very sexist climate that prevailed at the time. One of the offices I worked in, there were occasions that men would leave "girlie" magazines lying around from time to time. I reacted to them in several ways. I found them not only debasing but I know I wasn't alone in saying they made me feel uncomfortable and we were expected to shrug it off. Page 3 had the same effect and I can remember rowing with one boyfriend who had a page 3 calendar on his bedroom wall. When these issues were raised in the media, the response from the air head women who posed for these publications was usually something along the lines of "women who criticize us are obviously jealous" I remember at the time thinking they are so way off the mark, the reason we hate these publications is because the reduce the whole of women kind to sex objects and they must be thick if they chose not see that. Jealousy didn't come into it. I also hated the way women were used in say motor exhibitions, draped half naked across the bonnets of cars etc. Much has been written since about this kind of thing since and I think in retrospect most now agree it was indeed an awful era for the blatant sexism. Having said all that when I was reading about that horrible old sleaze bag Stuart Hall, the reporting about this case and others, the inference seemed to be this behaviour reflected a bygone era and everything is different now. Different yes, but better no. I would absolutely hate to be a teenage girl these days the pressure they seem to come under from their own peer group to perform all manner of sexual acts often caught on film is horrific. The internet as wonderful as it is, has opened the most awful can of worms as far as pornography is concerned. Reading about the two recent murder cases, Tia Sharp and April Jones, both the men convicted of these horrendous crimes had viewed child pornography. Why is it that the government can't or wont block these sites. I believe I read China blocks sites it doesn't want it's citizens to access, clearly it can be done. Google's complicity in this is far more shameful than their tax evasion. Why as a society do we tolerate it?

Going back to "lads' mags", yes I would like to lose them, but I think in the great scheme of things they are merely distasteful rather than pernicious. I wonder if our attitude to these magazines differs based on whether we are the mothers of sons rather than daughters. I am not trying to defend them, but they were something I had to get my head round when my boys were in their teens. Luckily my husband was very good at arbitrating between my annoyance and my older son having these publications lying round his room. He did this by pointing out that his nieces, my husband's older granddaughters, who are frequent visitors to our house might stumble upon them and would He want his little nieces looking at these half clad women in provocative poses and that usually got him to remove any calendars or pin ups off the wall at least. At the same time reminding me that teenage boys think about sex all the time and that they will look at this type of things and that was something I had to come to terms with. We always removed the worst of the "under the bed" publications, and they never asked where their stash had gone. I really liked Frank's post and again my husband's views on this subject are close to Frank's. He always told me he was embarrassed by a business partner who made salacious remarks about teenage girls when they both had teenage daughters themselves.

It's always been a problem for me to come to terms with the fact that there are women around today, some very successful, who delight in objectifying themselves. There was a concert at Twickenham at the week-end which was supposed to have something to do with the empowerment of women and therefore it's somewhat of a paradox to have Beyonce and Jennifer Lopez strutting around with very little on. What the hell has that got to do with the empowerment of women? I do not buy into that concept that their record company expects them to dress like this, I'd say those two singers mentioned along with Rhianna, Lady GaGa and Madonna before them have always micro managed their own image and they present themselves like this because they want to. To dedicate a concert to the empowerment of women whilst performing half naked strikes me as being pretty disingenuous, particularly when there will be girls who will be dressing like this against their will because they are trafficked and forced to work in the sex industry.

In conclusion I'd be happy to get rid of lad's mags and whilst we are about it perhaps we could get rid of some of these lap dancing clubs that proliferate ordinary high streets these days, maybe there is a place for them but not in our faces please and neither this government or the last did anything about getting these establishments re classified and off our high streets.

j08 Tue 04-Jun-13 18:44:49

I'm not commenting on Geoffrey Archer. I don't want to get Gransnet sued! grin

petallus Tue 04-Jun-13 14:32:06

Anyway, you've only got to do it three times for three kids! grin

petallus Tue 04-Jun-13 14:30:29

I know jO8, same here except two kids.

But when it comes to soft (or hard) porn the emphasis is often on defenceless looking women being humiliated.

Many married men go off with prostitutes and I wonder why?

Why did Jeffery Archer, for instance, go off with one when he had the fragrant Mary?

j08 Tue 04-Jun-13 14:14:17

...but that is a tangent. smile

j08 Tue 04-Jun-13 14:13:48

petallus! "I've often wondered why so many men find it easier to sexually relate to women they regard as their inferior."

That's not true! We managed three kids and I'm not inferior to him! hmm

Seriously, I think like attracts like.

Sel Tue 04-Jun-13 14:12:05

petallus I am not accusing you of a Mary Whitehouse style morality at all and I quite understand your objection to these magazine. My point, obviously not well expressed, was that they are dying out of their own accord so I don't quite understand why there is this potential campaign to ban them.

It is intensely worrying that really hardcore porn, not salacious pictures but video is available with a few clicks on the internet. This type of material would never have been available from a newsagent. It's worrying too that so many children have their own smartphones and tablets and know a great deal more about circumventing 'parental controls' than their parents do.

I would hazard a guess that the average 12 year old has seen far more explicit images than anything available on the High Street. It is corrupting and degrading to women, men and children to a level not seen before and the industry is a huge one, impossible to police when the servers are outside of this country's jurisdiction.

I don't know what the answer is or how to stop this burgeoning tide of revolting filth but an agreement that Google, Yahoo etc would not carry such content would be a huge step forward. It provides massive amounts of revenue though so I'm not holding my breath.

petallus Tue 04-Jun-13 13:53:18

AND subtle denegration ... I meant to say

petallus Tue 04-Jun-13 13:52:20

Sel my objection to soft porn mags is not down to a Mary Whitehouse style morality (as you seem to suggest) but rather based on feminist principles of concern about disrespect for a subtle denegration of women.

I wonder if the men who look at these images of vacuously smiling women with big tits think of them as equals, people to be taken seriously and introduced to one's parents? I think not.

I've often wondered why so many men find it easier to sexually relate to women they regard as their inferior.

HUNTERF Tue 04-Jun-13 11:33:59

The bank and council I worked for managed to block most of these porn sites.
That said I was an admin manager for a time and one of the employees came to me and said he had mis spelt something and got in to a porn site in error.
He was only in it for a few seconds while he noted down the details.
I had a quick look to check he was correct and then phoned the IT department and they came back within a few minutes to advise me it had been blocked.

Frank

Elegran Tue 04-Jun-13 11:16:31

"A circulating library in a town is as an evergreen tree of diabolical knowledge! It blossoms through the year! – and depend on it, Mrs. Malaprop, that they are so fond of handling the leaves, will long for the fruit at last" Sheridan, The Rivals

Lads mags and internet have gone further than the romantic novels of the first circulating libraries, devoured by over-protected young ladies enraptured by Gothic tales of seduction in ruined monasteries and desert tents, but they reach a parallel audience of inexperienced young people who get their images of "lurve" and sex from what they read.

Young men are aroused by images far more than women are, and books and mags and internet sites are now dominated by photography. Their first powerful experiences of sexuality are fuelled by exaggerated and unreal pictures of women doing things which once were only available in brothels catering for tired old roues who needed extreme measures to get it up. How then can they avoid wanting the "full works" that it seems everyone else is getting?

Sel Tue 04-Jun-13 10:27:23

their grin

Sel Tue 04-Jun-13 10:27:05

Before everyone gets their moral knickers in a great big twist about these old school lads' mags, the good news is, sales have plummeted and they will die a natural death.

The bad news is, there place has been taken by the far more explicit, extreme and corrupting internet, far easy for children to access than the top shelf of your local WHS.