Lads' mags - what do we think?

Well, I've always thought of myself as a feminist [an old uni friend of my husband's once decribed me as being liberated before liberation existed] but I can't say that lad's mags bother me, although female pop stars gyrating on stage semi clothed does. I've always rather felt that a man looking at a girlie mag was a bit like a woman reading a cookery book. I'd be interested in hearing what men feel about the proposal.

Depends on the mag. The ones with what used to be called "pinups" - pretty girls in a state of semi-nudity, remember Jane of the comic strip? - are fine, and good clean fun. Ones which show women servicing men in ways which humiliate them (the women - or indeed the men) are not.

Even the milder ones should be on a high shelf.

I didn't know some of them were like that .

We must have been very innocent in our youth.

Yes I think we were. 50 years anniversary of profumo. I was in first year secondary school and until then had never heard of prostitution. I bet there are not many 12 year olds today who do not know that some women do it for money.

Really, jess!!? Minibags doesn't know any, and I'd be very surprised if most of her peers did! A few might, but only a very few.

Soory I misread. You meant know of, and I read know. Still, I don't think Minibags would know what prostitution is.

Perhaps not, Bags, but I agree with Jess - most 12 year olds these days know what prostitution is.

Agreed!

A more innocent and ignorant world when we were eleven. Newspaper reports were written in code, BBC news on radio and TV, if you had one, was much more circumspect and adults didn't discuss things freely in front of children.

Apropos Profumo, I do remember by best friend and I buying a copy of the News of the World. I think that was the paper, it was one that wasn't allowed in either of our homes, but we bought it and devoured the details of The Profumo Scandal. This thread ties in quite neatly with the one on child abuse in the Graham Ovenden one. Different times.

Even though you don't have television, bags, I find it hard to believe that an intelligent 12-year old does not know about prostitution. Surely she sees newspapers or magazine articles? I think many parents would be surprised if they knew everything about their children! My mother certainly had no idea when I started sleeping with my fiancé (later my husband).

If it's 50 years since the Profumo scandal, I would have been 13 at the time. I had a vague idea about prostitution, although I have a faint recollection that both Christine Keeler and Mandy Rice Davies were usually described as call girls - a meaningless term to me at the time. I also assumed that osteopath - Stephen Ward's profession - was something deeply disreputable. Also, like the child in The Go Between I didn't follow the joke about the Minister for Whore (John Profumo being the Minister for War at the time).

I'll ask her. I'm judging by questions she has asked me recently. If she does see the kind of newspaper or magazine articles that mention prostitution, it's not at home. And her interests do not seem, so far, to cover that sort of thing. I wouldn't call her a street-wise girl.

I knew when eldest D's active sex life started without being told.

Which doesn't mean she wasn't discreet.

Apart from going to school and within our small village, Minibags has hardly been out without us.

I remember the Profumo scandal very clearly. We took the Manchester Guardian and listened to the wireless. I remember asking my father about the 'missing model' as Christine Keeler was described and how the front page seemed different. He explained how newspapers get round the law by juxtaposing pictures next to news items and leaving readers to draw their conclusions. Something I've seen only this week in a certain paper.

All three of my DGS read from an early age. They started looking at headlines very early and they ask questions about everything. My DS read early as well but, point I made earlier, headlines were not as explicit 40 years ago and news reports did not go into the detail they do now. Also, children at school discuss all sorts of things and some are much more exposed to the dark side of life than others.

My grandson is eleven and nine months and I don't think for one moment he knows anything g about prostitution. Why would a child of that age? They certainly begin to get a good idea of what sex is all about, but prostitution would n' t come into it.

Not sure if girls ars different but I hope not.

I answered all my daughters' questions as honestly as I could, in line with their age and experience. If they heard something in the playground that they didn't understand, I would explain it in simple terms, but always using the proper vocabulary. They did ask me about abortion, homosexuality, and sexual abuse, when they were about ten, and I told them the truth.
That was 40 years ago - now, I doubt very much if there is a playground in the UK where such things are not discussed.

I should add that I see a distinction between 'innocence' and 'ignorance'. The opposite of innocence is guilt, and the opposite of ignorance is knowledge. I believe many of the children who are abused do not tell any adult because they do not have the right vocabulary to describe their experience, or because they have picked up a sense from their parents that sex is 'dirty' and not something to be discussed.

I'd be surprised if the average 12 year-old boy/girl had any knowledge of prostitution.

And they have been told by the abuser that "this is our secret"

Or they may just know that it hurts but it doesn't' t cross their mind to say anything to anybody. Depends on the age.

Riverwalk - I taught in comprehensive schools in 'tough' areas of Merseyside in the 1970's and I can assure you that the majority of pupils knew about prostitution. 'Slag' was used frequently as a term of abuse, and they knew what they were saying.
Nearly 100% of UK homes have a TV set and children may listen to the news, or watch Eastenders, Emmerdale or Coronation Street, which have all dealt with the subject.
I think some older people might be looking back at their own state of knowledge, possibly through rose-coloured spectacles. I am afraid that my experience has been that some children play up to their parents' (or grandparents') naïve view of what they know and what they do.

Going back to Profumo affair, I remember my parents talking about it a lot and was also aware that it was on the news all the time when I was about 8 or 9 and didn't fully understand what it was all about, but was aware that whenever the name Christine Keeler came up it seemed that she was in a whole lot of trouble and I couldn't work out why this was when all she did was play tennis!!! It was only later that I was to realise that I had confused her with Christine Truman who was around at the same time. I have been very careful with my Christines ever since!!!