My son hurt his partner

The problem would be proving the violence. If the mother has no police record of the abuse then as far as the courts would initially be concerned it didn’t happen until it’s proven it happensed.
However the child abduction would very easily be proven straight away.

It may not be accepted as a holiday as
The father wasn’t consulted.
I assume there are no return tickets booked and there has been no return date given to the other parent.

sorry about typos, I posted in haste.

Well done grannyactivist for posting that link.

However, would ordering them to return to an abusive parent be a matter for the courts to decide if necessary?

I think you have done the right thing under the cirsumstances, GrandmainOz and I hope that you may be able to help your son to received some treatment or anger management to help him in the future.

Surely there is nothing that can obstruct a parent taking children to visit family in another country?
As you say it is not far away, I presume NZ or PNG, which may be sympathetic towards your DIL?

Best wishes.

You've done the right thing.

Well done brave lady, you did the right thing.
He now has two choices from this wake up call, get help & change his ways, or loose everyone. Big hugs, it takes tremendous courage to do what’s right. Big hugs

GrandmainOz, I am so pleased you had the courage to help your daughter-in-law escape and I will tell you why:

Two weeks ago today, A young mother of four children was stabbed to death by her estranged husband just 100 yards from my house. She had been living in a "safe house" for the last month, and was under the Police Safeguarding unit, so there had obviously been prior abuse and violence from her husband.

Fortunately, he was caught and arrested a couple of hours later, and will appear at Crown Court in March charged with her murder.

This shocked our neighbourhood to the core, (we are in a nice Surrey area, which rarely has had such a violent event) and as the lady was from Brazil originally, a large sum of money has been raised by the local community to repatriate her body to Brazil, and provide funds to help her family with legal requirements to look after the children.

While your son may not harbour such violent thoughts, it is commendable that you have helped to take your daughter-in-law out of harm's way.

I do agree, though, that legal advice should be sought quickly, on her position regarding taking the children away.

My best wishes go to you and your family.

Be very careful. You need to make sure that she gets proper legal advice about the consequences of running.

I had a friend in a similar situation and her first instinct was to take her son and run back to her family in the USA. I impressed on her to do nothing until she spoke with a lawyer. The lawyer told her that her actions would leave her open to a charge of parental abduction under the Hague Convention - which could result in the child being returned to her ex and her losing custody. She eventually did get custody and but her ex got 2 months of visitation per year.

There was a heartbreaking case in Sweden almost 20 years ago - the so called "Kimberly case". The Swedish mother fled home from South Africa with the 3 children aged 15, 11 and 7 year old Kimberly. The father went to Court citing the Hague convention. The 2 boys were allowed to decide where they live and opted to stay with their mother in Sweden but Kimberly was too young. The fact that the mother had "abducted" the child and that the child's normal residence was in South Africa went against the mother in the custody hearing and the child was ordered returned to South Africa - despite the fact that the husband's long working hours meant that she would be brought up by a nanny.

It must have been awful decision for you to make but I think you did the right thing. You put your daughter in law and your grandchild first, at the risk of possibly damaging your relationship with your son and giving up close contact with your grandchild. I think you were very brave and principled.

GrandmainOz I've made the assumption that you are in Australia. There is some advice below about parents removing children and also a link to a site looking at the legal aspects of Domestic Violence. A key issue is that of Parenting Orders:

If there’s a parenting order in place, or an application for a parenting order before a court, it’s an offence to move the children away from Australia without the written agreement of everyone covered by the current order, or any further court orders. You may go to jail for this offence. There are rules about what kind of written agreements the court will accept. Get legal advice.

Australia has agreements with other countries to prevent people removing children from the country where they usually live. If you take them overseas without the other parent’s consent, you could be ordered to return them under one of these agreements.

www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/About-us/Policies-and-procedures/Grants-Handbook/What-do-we-fund/Civil-law/Domestic-violence/Domestic-violence-orders

GrandmainOz you have been so brave and have absolutely done the right thing. All advice here is good, including the posts which urge legal advice for your ds's partner. Don't forget yourself in this and get some confidential advice from one of the Women's advice charities or from the Citizen's Advice people. Look after yourself and ask for help from the police immediately if you feel threatened in any way. I don't know whether I would have had your strength, compassion and level headedness in similar circumstances, but now you need to think of your own safety and future ... and that of your ds who needs your tough love more than ever, but not at your own emotional and physical cost.

Is the country she feels to covered by The Hauge convention?

You say she is a short flight away and I too had presumed you are in Australia, I hope you get to see them regularly.

Different countries have different laws. You were dealing with an emergency and removing your DIL and GC gives everyone breathing space and time to cool down and reflect. She and the child are with her own family who will support her and she will feel safe. Your GC is not seeing violence and hearing angry exchanges now. That is all for the good.

However, when she feels calmer she needs to take legal advice. As someone upthread asked, did she ever report the violence to the police, in which case there is documented evidence to support her claim. In England and Wales - (different in Ireland and Scotland) removing children too far from the other parent without permission of a court can result in accusations of abduction. So local laws need to be confirmed.

Also as someone upthread said - what an amazing MIL you are! I agree and thank goodness she had you to turn to in her hour of need. Kind thoughts are winging your way today.

You have done the best for your DiL and GS. I hope you have not put yourself at risk from your violent son. Judging by your forum name, I'm assuming that you are in Australia.

Agnurse, a police decision would be that the mother takes the child to a safe place-----no abduction charge.

Firstly, well done for being such a strong woman that you put them above your son. There needs to be more like you.

Secondly. Please please please get her legal advice in the UK ASAP
Your son could have the child returned to his custody. Has she reported any of the abuse to the police? Is it documented anywhere?

I think you have acted with your heart and in this instance totally correctly.

Keep yourself safe, your son will most probably be distraught and angry when he realises his child and partner have gone.

What a dreadful position you found yourself in GrandmaOz but you have done the right and bravest thing. You have thought about the safety of your grandchild and your daughter in law and that was paramount. Keep safe and look after yourself

Hopefully by now they are in the air and heading for safety with her family. You bravely took the only route open to you to protect them, but I do worry about your son's reaction when he finds out. Do you have neighbours you could call on for help if he is violent to you also? Perhaps alcohol came into play here, there is often a link?

It is a terrible position for any parent to discover their adult child has physically and mentally hurt someone, please take some small crumb of comfort in the support coming across to you here. Could you perhaps go away for a few days without telling you son where, whilst he absorbs the fact that they have gone? We can't give you physical hugs, but we would if we could!

Absolutely the right thing to do.
Regardless of who is the perpetrator, its always right to step in when there is abuse.

Grandmaoz You are not betraying anyone, you are protecting your vulnerable family. When they are safe you can look at getting help for your son. You are such a brave lady, I salute you. Please keep yourself safe and let us know you are ok.

You had to do this before, before anyone hurt.
No, you have not betrayed your son, he is an adult and responsible for his own behaviour..
Your wee grandchildren have to be kept safe.
It was a very brave decision you made and I admire you for being so strong, when you must be hurting so badly.

I see what agnurse is saying, but even if it comes to that (which I doubt) things would have to be handled rationally and in a legal context, not in the face of violence.
You have done exactly what you had to do. Facing up to such a difficult situation was very courageous. Stay strong and look after yourself too.

Well done ! So distressing for you but absolutely you have done the right thing. As a survivor of an abusive relationship my daughter, as an adult, still remembers how awful her father was before I left

Shocking to read and even more so to be part of the drama I expect. I do very much admire what you have done GrandMainOz you must be so upset now on several levels. I too wondered if your son has been using illegal substances?
Wishing you all the best outcome here.