The mouse that roared

I have always been 'just a girl who can't say no'. You wouldn't believe some of the daft things I've done that I really didn't want to. Prior to getting married in the 1960s, I bought a wedding dress from a friend, although I really didn't like it. I didn't like to say no when she offered to sell it to me. I didn't wear it on my wedding day. That's just one instance. What a dope. I'm learning though, at this late stage.

I prefer to be asked to do something by text. Then I can have a think and decide how i want to reply. When someone phones to ask a favour it's hard to think quickly.

Like GrandmainOz, regarding other people I turned a corner (learning to say "no") at 40 - then again (more so) at 50 & at 60. Now that 70 is just on the horizon, my family continue to be important & I help them as I can. But nowadays I see (socially) only those friends whose company I enjoy and whose company is in no way "draining".

Sometimes you have to say yes to something to please others. It’s not always about you.

Having said that, I went from a very selfish teenager/young adult; to a mother who then (I think I gave birth to my brain) suddenly felt I needed to please everyone.

After a serious illness, I’ve become a little ‘hard’ again due to self preservation. I’ve cut some people from my life who were horrid. I will say no unless someone I care about needs me. I still don’t put myself first if it comes to my children/grandchildren but then I think if you have them your needs come second. Otherwise, don’t have them.

I also, like Paddyann give to a couple of charities (monthly) that mean a lot to me.

Guilt is a huge factor in people pleasing. So many who pressurise others when they have no right to. So many who please even if it makes them uncomfortable.

Please the people who matter and learn to say no to those who don’t I guess.

I'll do all I can to help anyone in need,its how I was raised .I dont believe I'm a "doormat" because I care .I look after my GC because I want to and enjoy looking after them and teaching them things their mothers dont/cant.I have always given a % of my earnings to childrens charities ..thats also my choice so when I'm bombarded by phone calls for the most recent crisis I tell them my money is already spoken for and I will only give what I can when I can to a different charity.We are all different and surely thats how its meant to be it would be a very strange world if we were all the same .

Kitty assertiveness isn’t about being selfish and not helping other people.
And it’s not just about being able to say no.
I think of it more as being about saying ‘yes’ for the right reasons.
Saying ‘yes’ because you genuinely want to help your neighbour with the shopping, for example, rather than because you can’t say no.

And if you say yes for the right reasons, then you don’t expect anything in return, because you’ve genuinely wanted to help in the first place.

Growing up within a large family of girls we were always expected to be polite, unselfish and dutiful ...... fast forward a few decades and I finally learnt it's not selfish to consider my own needs and wants. If I don't take care of myself and don't respect myself no one else will, why would they if I've not shown any boundaries. I always give people the benefit of the doubt and would always help anyone in need, I've just learnt that helping isn't always 'doing' sometimes it's passing on the problem solving skills of independence ... otherwise known as being unavailable or saying 'no, sorry I can't' It's taken a lot of years for this lion to find her voice

I think that "Saying No" is a tough one.

It's finding that balance between do what is right/best in a situation when we don't want to do ??? and saying "No" when we are excising our "Rights" to use our time, energy and skills for taking care of ourselves, doing what's right for ourselves.

In addition to "A Women in Your Own Right" "When I Say NO I Feel Guilty" by Manuel J Smith is a good place to start.

I took both these books to the charity shop last week as I no longer teach Assertiveness, I hope someone benefits from them.

Undoing years of social convention, family norms and or own view of ourselves is no easy task.

Saying 'No' is a skill that was not often taught to (mainly) women of our generation so we find it harder to learn but we can work at it.

It's not easy to set "Boundaries" and to maintain them, saying 'No' is all part of setting boundaries and taking care of ourselves.

Realising we have the "Right" to take care of ourselves is a Big mind shift for some people and it takes time as well as practice.

So often the message we were given was that we "Should" take care of others. A better/healthier message is to find the balance of taking care or ourselves and of others too and how to juggle those Wants and Needs.

I do think most of us have a good radar for when our kindness is being misused, it's a problem at that point if saying No is still difficult. Giving and caring, showing kindness can bring many rewards to us but being taken for a mug does no-one any good.

It is OK to stand up for ourselves and say "NO" and for us to be the one to choose when we use our "No".

For those struggling with saying 'No" think of it as learning a new skill. At some point we had to learn to write, to drive, to cook etc and we needed to read, watch, practice until that ??? skill was easy for us. Assertiveness/saying No is no :-) different.

Go online, read the "Bill of Human Rights" look up articles, borrow/buy books then find someone you feel safe with and practice, practice, practice.

If anyone feels like a doormat and is beating themselves up about it please don't do that to yourself. If you've never learned to fly a plane you wouldn't beat yourself up for not being able to fly a plane. It's the same thing.

I bless my Mum for teaching me early to say 'No' in small ways and going through my working life I've really had to grow the skill.

It is never too late to learn a new skill.

PS I can crash a simulator but I can't fly a plane :-) OH can fly a plane but can't sew a seam, he can manage a button but that's as far as his sewing skills go.

Following this post with interest because I am very much a people pleaser and find saying no very difficult. If I do I always feel I have to justify myself. I have a close friend who is able to just say 'thank you for the invitation/offer but no thank you I can't make it/don't want to come /do that etc' No other explanation just leaves it there. For some reason I find that impossible to do.

I recently said 'No' to a friend when she wanted me to fill in a very personal questionnaire she gave me while we were out for coffee.

She looked totally taken aback, and said 'But why not?' And the truth bubbled up to my lips - 'I don't want to!'

That should be enough, really. I understand we sometimes have to do things for the sake of kindness, or out of duty, but this wasn't one of those occasions.

She still wasn't happy when we parted, and was still asking me why I didn't want to do it, but I really felt I didn't owe her any more explanation than that I didn't want to.

dragonfly46, I am a carer but can still say no. I will always support but that does not mean actually doing the job. If you see what I mean.

I always say ...sorry I cant oblige this time...usually to my daughter who has two children and a full time job she has to juggle. She totally accepts and understands, and never asks for an explanation.Its called mutual respect.

I suppose I can recognise my gut feeling. That’s when inside I don’t want to do what’s being asked of me. I am, as are most of us, kind and helpful.

It’s being able to say ‘no’ without good reason - just not wanting to - that I find difficult sometimes. And then if I go along with whatever it is I realise I should have said ‘no’ as I’m not looking forward to it.

‘Please others and you displease yourself’ comes to mind!

I am like Kitty and will always say yes if I can. As she says what goes around comes around.

I had a friend once, however, who I used to babysit for, do shopping for, ferried her children around and one day I asked her for a favour and she refused. That was when I decided never to be at her beck and call again. She was shocked that I backed off and could not see the reason for it.

For my DC, DH and Mum I will move heaven and earth to help where I can. I am a carer and get satisfaction from helping out where I can.

I canned do say the word no but I consider myself kind and compassionate. I stood firm on the babysitting for my son with 5 children and a least an hour to get there but had the gc stay weekends in small batches (3 at the most) I have said no many times to so called social events where I would be the driver. Didn't want to go and certainly not be the driver. On the other hand I took the elderly man next door, who was a terrible neighbour, to visit his wife daily in hospital and cooked him meals. You can be kind, say no and not be a door mat. what is wrong with being kind to yourself?

I have just recently walked away from something I have been doing reluctantly for a couple of years because I was being maade to feel guilty if I didn’t join in. I feel as if a load has been lifted off my shoulders, I’m free - now what shall I do with all this free time. It’s very liberating to say no and mean it.

Went through this dilemma a few years ago.A friend who was a mental health counsellor give me this tip
Can you do/come to this
Can I get back to you ,walk away can't badger empty space
Later if possible approach from behind and over there shoulder so sorry can't do /come again walk away.
She impressed the walk away.

I would do anything for my family, even if it 'puts me out'. I help iu friends if I can but friends have their own families so I don't see that as important really. I have always been a mouse but that's OK. Squeek.

I'd say the important phrase here is BradfordLass's "not allow people to make me feel guilty if I have a genuine reason to refuse" but with the addition that sometimes the "genuine reason" is your own needs - which may be just a bit of peace and quiet and TLC.

If you always put other people's convenience before your own, it can become automatic for them to assume that you will always do it, that they don't ever need to first consider an alternative solution. Bear in mind the flight safety instructions "Put on your own oxygen mask before helping someone else into theirs" That is not selfishness, that is maintaining your own health and strength, without which you can't support anyone else.

I bend over backwards (metaphorically) to help children/GC sometimes at the risk of annoying Mr Gravy. I have in the past cancelled appointments changed arrangements.

They all know that for the past 34 years H and I have gone out on a Friday night and that it is not going to be cancelled........our compromise is if they need a sitter on a Friday they have to accept the GC coming with us. The GC love this!!!!

In fact some Friday evenings we are joined by all GC, AC or a combination of!!!

It's tricky, isn't it? There's a happy medium somewhere, I feel sure.
I do feel that learning to say no nicely but firmly is a very useful life skill. Wish I'd learned it when I was young and daft - it would have saved me a great deal of trouble.

I don’t think the thread is about not wanting to be kind or helpful. It seems to be how to stop being a doormat who constantly gets walked on! I’m sure most posters here are kind and helpful and will go the extra mile. It’s not about me me me, it’s about having self confidence and not being a resentful victim of pushy people!

My 'no' has always stood firm. When my children and grandchildren were young they knew they could not wheedle their way round me. Their father/Grandad was not the same. I was always the disciplinarian in the house.

But do you want one urmston?

Do you feel put upon or do you feel it's part of life's give and take.

It isn't necessarily wrong to want to be nice to people around you.

Thanks for starting this thread Apricity!
I am the mouse and people pleaser! I will be curious to read further comments as to how one says ‘no’ without causing offence!

Are we born with a backbone or can we grow one?