Conscientious objectors

We had a neighbour who had been in a Japanese POW camp for three years. He was very quiet and withdrawn and had empty eyes. I think now he would be diagnosed as having PTSD.
My own father was born in 1899 and had just been called up in 1918 when the war ended. He was 41 in 1940 and joined the RAF but he had a cushy war, helping to repair damaged aircraft at Coningsby, Lincolnshire. He left my mother with four children living close to Manchester docks, but she found a little cottage in the countryside near Bury where we lived until 1945. My mother's younger brother was lost at sea on one of the Atlantic convoys. I don't think the men of the Merchant Navy got the recognition they deserved.
I can't watch films about WW1- even Blackadder made me weep. I read the war poets and think of all those young men who had been conned into thinking they were saving Britain, rather than making money for the armaments industry. WW2 was completely different (but there were still a lot of people who made money out of it). Having sown the seeds for the rise of Nazism, the Allies had no choice but to deal with the outcome.

Another echo for Nellie and Greatnan. I must have been a trial for my father as a teenager when I constantly argued that wars could always be avoided if people only talked to each other. He was a marine in WW2 and like most others of his generation didn't talk about the horrors he must have experienced. He would patiently explain to me, over and over, that it just isn't possible to negotiate with psychopaths like Hitler. He always told us he'd been lucky, and avoided the fighting. He was on the Mediterranean fleet, and said he'd arrived in various Greek islands, Tunisia, Alexandria and Italy just in time to miss any fighting. After he died, we found letters from the adult children of men he'd served with. These made clear he'd been involved in the battle of Sicily, where hand to hand fighting took place. The older I get, the more I admire those who served their country in this war. I was anti Vietnam, etc, and marched (futile) against the invasion of Iraq. The day before the vote in the HoC, I wrote to my MP to ask him to oppose any bombing of Syria. I wish we could use diplomacy effectively in every situation, we can't. I hope it works in the Syrian conflict though - so many people suffering and dying horrific deaths.

Oh! I have just echoed Greatnan

My Dad never served in the army during WW11 I did wonder if he might of been a CO, he told me that he drove in conveys in and out of the docks in London delivering 'stuff' all over England. My mum said she never knew exactly what he did after he'd died.

Girlracer "Why would ANYONE go to war" I would suggest its to stand up to psychopaths like Hitler. A conflict that could probably be defined as a necessary war.

My Dad was working in the British United Shoe Machinery works in Leicester just before the war and stayed there as a reserved occupation during the war doing this stuff.

WW2 saw a much higher percentage of BUSM’s precision engineering capacity switched to manufacturing arms than in WW1. Products included Naval gun sights and the technically very demanding precision cast wheelhouse for the Rolls-Royce Merlin aero engine.

My dad eventually qualified as a mechanical engineer and went into teaching maths type things.

During the war he also had to do first aid and fire watching duties if he was not working. The noise of the rivet punching machines did damage his hearing. "They also serve."

I thought that mining was considered a rserved occupation. However, many miners joined the services voluntarily, which left jobs available for the "Bevan Boys"

Why wasn't mining considered as a reserved occupation? Seems a bit of a mistake there!
My dad was an industrial chemist working for ICI and he was....ICI of course was doing a lot of war work then. To make up for not being in the forces he was a special policeman, often on night work after his day work!

Bevin Boys were conscripted to work in the coal mines. Ten percent of those conscripted aged 18–25 were selected for this service.

I don't think the Bevin Boys, who had to work in the mines, were despised. Certainly there were influential parents who managed to keep their offspring out of the front line.
No rational person wants war but sometimes it is thrust upon us.

That's very sad Heather84, it must have impacted on your family enormously. Your father was a brave man to stand up for his beliefs, courage of a different kind. My father detested his time in the Army during the war and suffered from the effects for the rest of his life. I think many managed to get into a reserved occupation to avoid conscription, certainly where I grew up they were talked about afterwards with a sort of contempt. I never heard contempt expressed for COs.

girlracer many wars are futile I agree. Perhaps you'd prefer we were now living under German rule?

oh I meant to say it sounds like a very interesting book.

Whilst it would be ideal if diplomacy secured peace when disagreements across countries arose there are always going to be situations where some show of force is the only solution.

However I do agree that 11th November should be a memorial day but think it should not be about the 'glory' of conflict or jingoism but a sad reminder that, unless we work hard at diplomacy and negotiation, untimely death of mostly young men and women is the outcome.

girlracer - what would you suggest a country should do when threatened with invasion by another country that wants to extend its own lands and power? Lie down and let their tanks roll over you?
Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. There are neo-Nazi groups in many parts of Europe, including Britain.

My father was a Conscientious Objector in World War II. His subsequent experience of rejection and hatred led to what was then called a nervous breakdown and ruined the rest of his life. He always suffered from depression and found most social occasions difficult. Sadly, his religious faith, which had led to his refusing to take up arms, did not sustain him.

After appearing before a tribunal, Conscientious Objectors were directed to war work of various kinds- the alternative was prison.

When the war was over it was very difficult for CO's to get, or hold on, to work as preference was always given to ex-service personnel.

I shall read this book with interest.

Why would ANYONE go to war? I just can't understand it. I refuse to buy a poppy each year, simple propaganda. Why do people still talk about the war(s)? Have they never done anything in the ensuing 70 odd years that is worth talking about? If there had been a war here in my lifetime, I would have certainly been a "conchie". Why can't we all just live in peace?

Yes of course annodomini it was a long while ago, and I think I got carried away there. I do remember him as being a very gentle man. Wish I could remember his name - should never have started this conversation!

Sometimes, of course, a very few of them were both.....

I hope you mean CND, PRINTMISS!

A good friend of ours refused to join any of the forces for his 'National Service' (1940/50's era) and so was 'constrcipted' into the Forestry Commission (if that was working then) for two years, something he was happy to do. He was also an avid CID member and imprisoned for a few months for sitting outside the Houses of Parliament.

book sounds so interesting. my daughter consciously objected to doing cadets at school and was practically made to feel like she was a villain because she hates war and does not like it to be promoted as a game .shes been brought up as good as anyone can do but all decisions are hers to make not for me or others to condemn

That is a good question, Mary, and one I hadn't considered. I wonder if those who were imprisoned felt that doing anything in the conflict meant, to them, that they were still aiding and abetting it. But your point about such people tying up resources makes sense. Mmm.

Hello mary , long time no see, how are you doing?

I thought a true CO also refused to do any work that would release a man or woman for active service. Surely that would include land and medical work?

A family story passed down was that my granddads mum bragged that her husband (my grandads step father) had won a commendation medal in the Great War. My grandad was always a little suspicious and shortly before my grandad died I helped him trace some old army records. It turned out that the "commendation " he had received was in fact a DD (dishonourable discharge) which really put a smile on my grandads face as he was very badly treated by him as a young boy.

I could see myself refusing combat training but volunteering for something like the medical corps. I would have a lot of respect for anyone who did something like that.

On the other hand there were a number of people who helped the enemy by refusing to do anything and tied up the police and/or troops required to keep them locked up.

Which variety are we talking about?