Men holding doors open for women

If women take such things in their stride, I think it's never an issue. If they squawk at every perceived insult, is it any wonder if men get fed up and look down on them?

Why do it then?

petallus how does one open a door in a gender free way? Why wouldn't men, or women, 'respect' a woman who wanted to become chairman of the board? Bagitha I think you are right to say 'perceived'.

There really are bigger problems for women to cope with so I am just happy if anyone holds a door open for me and thank them graciously. I hold doors open, let someone with few items go ahead of me at the supermarket and I used to give up my seat to anyone who seemed to need it more when I used public transport.

It probably goes back to when women were permanently either pregnant or holding one baby and leading another. As such they needed someone to hold the door for them. That this also established women are brood mares whose value was as incubators for sons is another subject for discussion (cue another thread.....)

Being polite to a someone perceived as weaker and less likely to draw a sword on you in retaliation for an insult marked you out as a civilised sophisticated gentleman, too. A churl would just have barged through the door first, knocking down the woman, and possibly raping her in passing.

Good manners have a basis in historic notions of fairness and decency. They were not planned as denigration, so no need to bridle when you come across them. Smile and be grateful you met a gentleman and not a churl.

Kittylester I meant that opening doors should not depend on gender, so women opening for men, women for women, men for women, men for men etc. I don't know about now because I've stopped noticing but back in the 80s in my experience women generally did not open doors for men and men did not open doors for other men as a courteous gesture, only maybe if someone was carrying something heavy.

There's plenty of literature out there about 'the glass ceiling' for women and how women bosses out with a subordinate male colleague are assumed to be the secretary and how if a woman in a boardroom comes up with an idea it is 'not heard' and then when a man says it five minutes later it is!

These days I'm fairly relaxed about it all though. I suppose we should just go with our own needs and preferences.

p.s. Bagitha do men 'squawk' or is it only women?

yes, some men squawk.

And some women don't. Why be gender fixated? There are a few things women can do that men can't do and vice versa, because of biological differences. Full stop.

Actually I'm surprised to find I still have some feminist fire left in me; thought it had turned to ashes ages ago. As always we women are divided on the issue.

Can't post any more just now as DH is demanding that I go and make him a cup of tea

My husband and I always let anyone else through a door before us and offer our seats on public transport to others - its the way we were brought up to have consideration for others and those small gestures and a smile make the world go round as my dear old dad used to say.

When I was Head of a large remedial service, sales reps would sometimes come in the office and ask to speak to my boss, assuming I was a secretary. I just found it amusing to see their faces when I told them I was the boss.
I was asked at the interview if I intended to have any more children - I offered to show them the scar! There was certainly a good deal of resentment amongst some men teachers because a woman, and a young woman at that (36) had got a top job. It just spurred me on to do a very good job.

Yes, I don't understand your reasoning, petallus. And why shouldn't men hold open doors for each other? I've certainly seen it done - it's just good manners not to leave the door to smash into someone's face if they're not quick enough!

Anagram I didn't say they shouldn't, I said they didn't in the 80s. I think they should and they probably do these days.

The other day I was given a tour around Harwell Nuclear whatsit with two men. We went through a lot of swing doors but none of us were carrying anything. We sort of took it in turns to open the doors for the others though probably I got more than my share of door opening!

Greatnan although you didn't mind being asked if you were having more children, enough people thought it was out of order to make it something an interviewer is not allowed to ask these days.

Although some women make it in spite of the 'glass ceiling' a lot of others do not, hence the predominance of men in all the powerful institutions in society.

Incidentally, someone over on Mumsnet recently threatened to leave because of the 'rad fem' bias she thought she noticed. I see they do have a Feminism heading. Might go and have a look to see what the younger generation think these days.

I like it if someone holds a door open for me, no matter what gender they are, likewise when I hold them for others. It`s nice to still come across good manners, but sadly it doesn`t happen too often these days.

People are people, kindness is kindness, one shouldn't over think things. Bagitha is right - men can do somethings, women can do somethings, lots of us can do the same things - including being polite.

That's very true!

This door-opening business has clearly fanned a few feminist flames, but I'm afraid I would be surprised if a man did NOT hold a door open for me, just as I would be surprised if a man failed to lever himself out of a chair on first introduction.

But because I am still relatively young and fit I always try and hold doors open for strangers struggling with disabilities, lots of shopping, babies etc. and I would never expect an ill/old/infirm person to heave him or herself out of a chair for me (though it's nice when they try!).

When the children were young I hung a huge notice in the playroom intended not just for our children but for all their friends. The two instructions I remember most clearly are:

(1) Please leave outdoor shoes in the hall

(2) Please remember to stand up when an adult enters the room

I think I also had strict rules about swearing and smoking.

These simple requests did not deter huge numbers of children coming to our house and they were rewarded with teatime treats (flapjacks and drop scones!) and/or warming suppers (spag bol being the favourite).

Good manners cost nothing and I love the way DH always lets me enter and exit the house before him and always walks on the outside when we're on the pavement.

I like it and say thankyou with a smile. I also open doors to people in the Charity shop where I sometimes work and help mothers with buggys onto the bus. There is really nothing wrong with it. Its called good manners.
I have had my suitcase carried at old fashioned railway stations where there is no lift. I appreciate it.

Oh yessss! Railway stations (and not train stations, thank goodness). If strong young men or women offer to help me with a case (or three) I always accept with grace and a big smile. And if someone else helps me "mind the gap", so much the better.

DH always tries to help pretty young women put their cases on luggage racks but they seem to be stronger than him these days so they end up doing it together. Bless!

When I was a young mother and struggling to get on/off the bus with shopping and/or pushchair, I would often find that it was the older men who would rush to help me, while they probably needed more help themselves than me, but I always appreciated it and thanked them warmly. Obviously they were brought up in an era when good manners mattered.

I very much resented being asked if I were going to have more children and it was already forbidden then - unfortunately, one of the councillors on the interview panel was a dinosaur, but he was soon put in his place by the others.

I remember when I took up my first MO post with what was then theDSS. My SMO was ex army as we're the other3male MOs. their instinct was to open doors for me and let me through first! Protocol said the opposite. They also rose if I came into a room!
I made a statement! Forget that I am female! I'm just another person doing the same job! Stop being so silly!
Readers, it worked!

I certainly wouldn't feel patronised if a man held a door open for me. I would be impressed by his display of 'good manners'. Lets face it, good manners are becoming as rare as hens teeth.

Didn't worry me. Worried them with ingrained manners v protocol! I found it both amusing and ridiculous!
They had never had a female MO before!
The decision to treat me as another bloke solved it!
The only other feminist issue I had was when we had a lot of snow and the office was very cold! I turned up in a (very smart) trouser suit! The SMO queried this as acceptable dress?
I retorted that one of my fellow MOs was a Scott and no one would have queried his right to turn up in a kilt? But would he wear one in this weather?
Deathly silence! Point made!