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So Sad

(72 Posts)
ttgran Thu 10-Jan-19 11:43:48

Quite a newbie on this site but find many of the answers to problems of family life helpful.
My two adult children have had words over the last three months culminated in them not talking to each other.(they have always been angsty with each other but never like this)
Today one of them told me that she is cutting any contact with me because I have not supported her as she expected (we have been very close)I can still see the grand children via SIL but she will no longer talk to me.
We are a small family unit and like any family we have had our ups and downs but just cannot understand how she can do this.
I have no siblings and although some good friends they are too close to our family that my discussing this might get back to her.

Too say I am upset is an understatement I have tears rolling down my face I cannot see a way forward.

Too make matters worse I have found a lump where there shouldn't be one and have a urgent doctors appointment today normally I would ring her for support but sadly can't.
Not sure why I am posting just need to talk to someone


Franbern Thu 10-Jan-19 11:57:34

ttgran, so sorry to learn of your current distress. Hopefully, the lump (like most of these) will prove nothing to worry about. Think you should try contacting your daughter and let her know how very distressed you are at her comments.
If you feel you cannot talk to her, send her a 'Sorry' Card, pointing out that you are really desperately sorry that your relationship with her is suffering so much.
Such a pity when siblings cannot get on, even worse when they just do not have anything to do with each other. No way should you be asked to choose between them, they are both your children.
Do carry on using this site to air our distress and hopefully, within a not to long while, you will be able to also write of improvements in these relationships.

DanniRae Thu 10-Jan-19 12:02:14

Ohttgran your post has made me so sad. Surely if you let your daughter know about the lump she will rethink her decision to no longer talk to you?
I wish I could be more helpful but I send you all my best wishes and sincerely hope that your fears about the lump come to nothing.
Love Danni x

dragonfly46 Thu 10-Jan-19 12:03:36

I am sure if you were close before you will be again. Your DD will miss you as much as you miss her. I was once told by my daughter that she thought I loved my son more. Nothing could be further from the truth as I love them both equally but he was an easy child and she was more difficult.
We have had our ups and downs and times when she has felt I haven't supported her but after a few days, as the grownup I have contacted her and we have made up.

Maybe if you tell her about the lump it may make her realise that there are things that are more important. I do hope it is nothing to worry about but do not give up on your daughter.

Telly Thu 10-Jan-19 12:06:32

Hope all goes well at the GPs. By the sound of it, there is a huge case of sibling rivalry going on here. Not a lot you can do at the moment except ride out the storm. I would try to take a step back and wait until things calm down. I wonder if there is more to this than meets the eye, did something happen at an earlier stage in their lives? At the end of the day you can't make them love or even like each other. I would certainly not cave in to any demand that you take sides. With a bit of luck and support from your son in law things will get back to an uneasy truce, which is probably as much as you can hope for at the moment. Concentrate on yourself and your health at the moment and leave them to consider their actions.

Loulelady Thu 10-Jan-19 12:39:56

This is rubbish timing for you, I really hope your lump is not sinister.
If you can manage, I would actually delay telling your daughter and give her a little of the space she has requested.
Write a card (virtue of small space so nice and short) saying you love her dearly and are sorry you haven’t supported her in the way she needed - don’t justify your actions, however tempting. Say you want to prove you respect her by following her wishes and giving her breathing space, but that you hope she will feel able to return to your former relationship soon and that you will be waiting. Promise not to interfere between her and her brother in the future.
Sibling dynamics can be strange, did he bully her a bit growing up? Their recent quarrel might have triggered a lot of resentment about their relationship in childhood which could be behind any disproportionate reactions now.
What I suggest about the lump might not be reasonable, in which case, forgive me. It’s just there is a tiny risk that your daughter thinks the lump is a convenient way of emotionally blackmailing her into contact. I know it sounds unbelievable, but apparently it is a thing with some narcissistic types and it even has a nickname “Christmas cancer” because of its common appearance just before Christmas to mandate attendance from reluctant adult children. I imagine if she doubted you for a second it would be incredibly hurtful and damaging.
I think the fact she doesn’t want to obstruct you seeing her children is promising, it suggests she isn’t punishing you, she just needs space herself and has found all this very stressful.
How you respond is really important though if you don’t want to drive a further wedge between you.

Fairpricerx Thu 10-Jan-19 12:56:34

This is very sad (((I have a brother, and I love him very much. He is my support, my friend. It's sad when brothers and sisters quarrel (

ttgran Thu 10-Jan-19 13:27:12

Thank you so much for your replies I was hesitant about posting but your kind replies have helped a heavy heart.

I haven't mentioned the lump because as Loulelady said it seems a bit of a coincidence I want connection because they want too not because of a potential health issue.

I have been referred to a consultant GP thinks its ok but better to have it checked

Thank you again

BlueBelle Thu 10-Jan-19 15:18:01

First good luck with the gps appointment
Secondly what is the matter with this modern phenonenmen of stopping contact ! People have always had ups and downs in families it’s all part of ‘life’s rich pattern’ And perhaps a coolness descends for a few weeks but it’s only in the last few years that I ve come across all this cruel cutting off What a horrible controlling thing to do
I can only say what I would do in this situation I would write her a letter telling her how much I love her and how I would never help one child more than the other that I want to continue being part of both their lives and then wait and see
It’s a horrible horrible situation and unless more has gone on than is your post a very cruel way for her to behave

Gonegirl Thu 10-Jan-19 15:31:01

Flipping Mumsnet strikes again?! (non-contact business)

So sad for you ttgran. I think tell her about your appointment with the consultant. I think she would like to know, and it might just jar her out of this silliness.

Hope all goes well for you. Take care of yourself (as a priority).

sodapop Thu 10-Jan-19 15:40:27

I agree with BlueBelle after your Consultant appointment write to your daughter and tell her the results and how sad you feel that she is cutting contact with you.
I think things probably seem worse as you are stressed at the moment.
I hope things go well for you.

Luckygirl Thu 10-Jan-19 16:36:43

It is so odd when a family member simply states they do not want to speak to you again. It seems to be all the rage just now - and totally unacceptable. If there are problems, she should be discussing them with you.

Hope that your GP has got it right and the lump is benign. flowers

emmasnan Thu 10-Jan-19 16:50:28

Not much I can add but just wanted to say I'm sorry to hear this, cutting contact is so cruel.

I do hope the lump is benign.

Harris27 Fri 11-Jan-19 10:07:36

In always feel saddened reading posts like this. I have three sons two married and other living back at home again. As in any familyninfeelmwenhave had our ups and downs and I quite a stubbirnn( been told this) but quite calm person so any upset really hits home. I would leave it at the moment and let her cool down and then perhaps see the children through sil who will feel awkward he should talk some sense into her. I wish you well and thank all gransnetters for helping me feel included.

Coconut Fri 11-Jan-19 10:07:38

I would let your daughter know just how devastated you are and hope that she has a rethink. Are there unresolved issues that need to be calmly discussed/settled ? Ask her how she would feel if it was her children, so that she can empathise with how you feel. Good luck with everything ...

anitamp1 Fri 11-Jan-19 10:14:40

How awful for you. Could you perhaps send her a letter to tell her how sad you are with the situation, but explain that you love both her and her sibling unconditionally. And that you cant bear the thought of falling out with either. It is sometimes easier to put feelings down on paper. But keep it simple.

Craftycat Fri 11-Jan-19 10:15:38

I think a letter is a very good idea. It can be read several times & when she is feeling like it.
Of course you must give both your children the same support- we can't take sides- so she should understand that you need to stay on the fence.
I would mention the lump- she would probably be devastated not to be told- I think you should tell them both- it may unite them.
Good luck- I am sure it will be nothing to worry about.

dottie145 Fri 11-Jan-19 10:21:51

Firstly you need to sort your health issues asap Families fall out all the time you are not responsible and it is wrong to cut you off for any reason I would look after yourself first. Don't use your health In order to change their minds Let them get on with it and sort themselves out.

Jobey68 Fri 11-Jan-19 10:24:57

What an awful situation for you, your daughter should not be trying to force you to take sides, you are a mum and your job is to support them both no matter what.
As a parent herself your daughter should at least understand this!

As for your lump, get yourself checked out as soon as possible, there is no sense in sitting worrying, most lumps are nothing to worry about. I've had breast cancer and know how frightening it is but what ever the outcome it can all be dealt with.

Your daughter needs to calm down and realise there are far more important things in life that will spats with family Xx

harrysgran Fri 11-Jan-19 11:05:43

So sad for you it is an awful situation when conflict like this is going on between our children you feel so torn in all directions I have no advice other than your health needs to be your priority at the moment hopefully times like this pass and they will both see how childish and selfish they are

Catlover123 Fri 11-Jan-19 11:18:36

so sorry for you, it must be difficult and hope that the lump is not serious. I just wonder why so many of your replies seem to say that you should write a letter? I always feel it is better to see someone face to face. I had a few difficulties with my own mother and it seemed easier to ignore a letter than if she was actually there. I know it is hard, but if you contact her and say you really need to see her, wouldn't she agree? I do hope for both your sakes that you can resolve the relationship. I remember saying to my brother that of course he was always 'the golden boy' and I was the one getting into trouble and he said he was surprised because he always thought I was the favourite!! and this is only a few years ago and we are in our mid-60's!

Maggie1952 Fri 11-Jan-19 11:29:21

Hello ttgran, I’m so sorry to hear what an awful time you’re having. I’m at present going through something similar. I have 5 adult children and we’re close bar one! A daughter who fights with her siblings, dreadful verbal abuse including abuse to me. To cut a long story short all of us have backed away from her now as it was to much. You simply can’t take sides with your children I would stay silent and don’t get involved! I would make no reference to your daughter about her disagreement with her sibling, therefore giving her no ammunition/come backs. I would most definitely tell your daughter about the lump you have found. Make it straight to the point, with care and tact but no emotional input. Like me, you once had a good close relationship with your daughter and these feelings don’t disappear over night. I suspect she will return in time and I would suspect she needs you more than you need her! But she needs to know that this will most certainly not happen again, that she cannot hold you to an emotional ransome again! Be strong! If you go running to her, then you’re showing her that what she has done has been successful! Fortunately I can see my grandchildren whenever I wish, but not see her, sad as that is, it’s fine, though I sense little chinks in her armour are showing, but, she will know, no more verbal abuse or emotional abuse will be tolerated by me. Don’t cry ttgran, tell her of your lump, and make it short.

freestyle Fri 11-Jan-19 11:31:25

I have been in this situation and it carried on for three years. My eldest son just cut contact he just stopped being in our life’s. This was all down to jealousy and greed. I had just had my first granddaughter by my youngest son so I was over the moon but my eldest and his wife were jealous and thought we were giving money to other son and we were helping as much as we could, everyone knows it’s hard when new baby arrives. He just cut us out no matter how we tried we couldn’t bridge the gap. They eventually expected their first baby and we were the last to know even though my husband worked with my son and in actual fact was his manager. I sent baby clothes to my son, he returned them. Family wasn’t any help ( my husbands brother and my sister and their spouses )seemed to get a kick out of it and gave the pot a good stir. When their daughter was born she was so poorly and was in intensive care she was so close to dying. He phoned to tell us to come to the hospital as they were christening her as they didn’t think she would make it. Even at the hospital we were treated as second class citizens my son let people see our granddaughter before us. as she was getting better he told us to visit just on a Friday at the hospital. It has been a struggle but we have a good relationship now. We have given our sons everything in fact to much I never would have treated my parents or my husbands parents in this way. I think the more you do the more you may. Those three years were the worst of my life I never want to go through that again. Jealousy is an awful game. I wish you good luck and hope everything turns out positive for you. Xx

ayokunmi1 Fri 11-Jan-19 11:36:31

Im holding you in a tight hug.
This sadness will pass concentrate on your health for now
This is why my children are my children but not my best friends...seen how my friends have been controlled .

Annaram1 Fri 11-Jan-19 11:39:00

I feel as devastated as ttgran. My own lovely daughter rang me from Canada a few weeks ago and told me she wanted to reduce contact with me as I had no respect for her and never have had. I could say the same about her. She is 54 Her call turned into a half hour rant, in which she accused me of all sorts of things, As far as I know I have always supported her, even flew immediately to Canada when she was found to have a lump which was operated on (it was benign). We sent her and her husband a lot of money over the years, even gave them a deposit for a house. When we visited them in Canada we paid for a lot of things, including a trip to a holiday area, a voyage from Vancouver to Alaska, dinners out, and looked after our granddaughter when possible. All to no avail. She is now newly back to live the other side of England. I saw her and granddaughter at my son's for Christmas and things had slightly improved. SIL is working abroad and was not here. I am not sure if things will continue to improve as I cannot forget some of the hurtful things she said. My husband died nearly 3 years ago and I feel lonely without her.

Theoddbird Fri 11-Jan-19 11:45:43

Please call her and let her know about the appointment. Keep it short and just say you felt she should know. Do the say to her sibling as well. Sending virtual hugs and peace to you all.

Lilyflower Fri 11-Jan-19 11:52:41

Bloody hell. It is heartwrenching to read all these stories of family members treating each other with such cruelty. Nothing excuses it.

dragonfly46 Fri 11-Jan-19 11:58:04

Annaram1 and all the others estranged from their AC I feel so sorry. I cannot imagine how you feel.

I have an adult daughter and adult son. I think we are close although my son rings more often and keeps me abreast of his news. He is married with 2 children and although we have had a few hiccups with my DiL in the past we worked really hard at making things work and I would say we get on well now.
I hear from my daughter spasmodically by text but rarely by phone. If I do not hear from her I know she is happy. She is also married with no children and we get on really well with SiL. We are welcome there anytime. I know though that she would do anything for us as demonstrated recently when I was diagnosed with breast cancer. We also have had our ups and downs but always try and talk it through.

Of course families will have their ups and downs but in my view it is important to keep the lines of communication open. I would and have bent over backwards to make this happen often swallowing pride.

I do hope you all sort these problems out.

dragonfly46 Fri 11-Jan-19 11:59:10

Sorry about all the ups and downs - you must be dizzy!

Tillybelle Fri 11-Jan-19 12:15:06

ttgran. Oh you poor girl! I am so sorry! It never rains lest it pours does it not?

I'm glad you posted your message even if you're not sure why you did. There will be so many people who understand your distress and can give you comfort.

Trouble among adult children is not in the least bit unusual, indeed it is so common I would go so far as to say it is practically normal in statistical terms. People hide it or concentrate on the good times so the amount of it is not revealed.

I have had my own distress with adult children and have seen my friends go through it in a very big way too. One friend, whose has been a widower for many years, has two daughters who refuse to be under the same roof and who have kept up their feud for over 10 years.

Obviously, in expecting you to take sides, your daughter is being unfair and unrealistic, especially as she is a parent herself. The bit about not bringing the Grandchildren to see you smacks of manipulation and suggests to me that her sister may have reason for avoiding her. In many families, and I mean very many, there is at least one member who has a personality which causes trouble in relationships and creates distress between people. I had to endure my mother's personality problems and then, in a far worse and more merciless way, my older half-sister. We could not have a family event or time such as Christmas without her causing a terrible row and upset. So in the end I tried to avoid contact. As I started to mention it to friends, I learned just how many other people had the same problem.

I know how distressing this is and that you are very upset and do not know how to address it. It feels like the end of the world at the moment. Please try to take great care of yourself, in the first instance. Treat yourself well, have a treat like going to the hairdresser or doing something you enjoy. Do things that bring you into contact with your friends in your generation. Concentrate on your own life. Your children are now adults so try to let go. Make sure you tell yourself every time the worrying thoughts about this schism come into your mind, that this is their problem, they are adults now, you do not have to sort it out and you are not going to be manipulated. When your daughter realises you are not affected (apparently) by her blackmailing words, she will at first perhaps try harder to hurt you, but eventually she will see that you regard her as an adult who must sort out her own problems now and that threatening you will make no difference to what you do. You will always love her, you are her mother, but you cannot be manipulated to come between your children.
I do hope you have some good friends who can take you out and keep you occupied in pleasant things to keep your mind off this as far as is possible. This problem will not go on in its intensity as it is a the moment. If your daughter decides never to heal the breach with her sister, that is not something you can alter. You must look after yourself. Things will get better, I promise. You will adapt and become very wise through all this.

Even having to go through the worst scare and the tests that finding a lump engenders, can actually bring with it some silver linings to that cloud. You will meet people, and who knows what kind friends you might make, even someone who has great advice about family matters like yours? Never give up hope. We can get through these things and are not alone. If you get the worst diagnosis, even that is so different today from say, 5 years ago. It is a journey and you will make it and even find bits of it enjoyable. It will be interesting, certainly. Please remember, from now on, you are No.1: You do whatever you want! You enjoy life. If you fancy some chocolate cake then you have some!
God bless you, I shall be thinking of you and sending much love, Lx flowers

Tillybelle Fri 11-Jan-19 12:26:02

Sorry! I said "Sister" meaning "brother". Confused by my previous examples!

blue60 Fri 11-Jan-19 12:40:32

Hello ttgran. This is indeed a sad situation. My brother stopped talking to me for over year due to a falling out I had with my niece (his daughter).

My mother did not take sides, and I respect her for that. After a year of no contact, my brother and niece eventually started speaking to me again and we are all on an even keel with no lasting resentment among us.

I guess your daughter sees herself as being in the right - she may well be - and is expecting you to make a choice. You have chosen not to, which is the right thing to do. Leave them to it, don't make any comment or get involved in their argument.

I believe your DD is making a mistake, we all make mistakes and she will see that in time. In the meantime, that doesn't help you very much, but just carry on and do what you think is right.

It also doesn't help now that you need support at a distressing time. If she knew, she might come to her senses and realise what she is doing. You must now turn your attention to your own well being and take care of yourself.

I really hope your lump turns out to be benign, and whatever the outcome you have support on here. Wishing you all the very best. xx

Jaycee5 Fri 11-Jan-19 12:53:55

Was there nothing in the 30 minutes she spent talking to you that was valid? You have called it a rant but it is difficult when things build up and you finally get the courage to say it particularly when it is a parent.
My mother always stays impartial if my sister and I fall out unless she is the one upset in which case she will intervene. I am not going to pussyfoot around that just because she is my mother (although obviously now she is 93 I let things go). My sister admits that she was always the favourite, she just thinks that she deserved to be.
I think that it is virtually impossible for parents to treat siblings equally but they always think that they do.
Her outburst may well have been unfair and full of imagined slights but you have just written it off as a rant which seems unfair. Can you try to get past your own hurt and then think a bit more closely about the detail of what she actually said rather than the hurtful way she may have said it. If there is anything at all that you can take from the conversation that you could address she would at least feel that she had been heard.
It is hurtful to be at the receiving end of someone who is angry with you but most adult children probably have some built up frustrations with their parents that they want to get off their chests. Sometimes it is possible to let it go but sometimes it is too difficult and she was explaining why she feels that she can no longer cope with as much contact.
I wouldn't tell her about the lump until after the appointment as hopefully it will not be a problem and she may just think that you are trying to guilt trip her, unfair though that would be.
You have spoken about your feeling but not really about your daughter's. You talk about helping out financially which is great and may not have been appreciated in the way it should have been but it does not really affect emotional hurt. My mother was as generous as she could afford to be financially but she still stayed with my father who she knew was emotionally abusive to me. She still ignored the fact that he gave all my toys away when I was 10 out of spite (he said I was too old to have toys but my sister, at 11, was allowed to keep them). In her mind she loves us both equally and in her own way she probably does.
Time may help and she may feel better for getting things off her chest but I think it unlikely that the relationship will heal easily without at least addressing her concerns. If you accept that she feels that you did not give her support, you could explain to her that you have tried to be supportive but that it seems not to have been the kind of support that she needed and that you are sorry for that (if you are). You have referred to all the things you have done since she has been an adult, but it probably doesn't start there for her. Was she happy as a child?
The timing is awful and you have to wait until you are feeling physically and emotionally strong to deal with her, if you still want to - you might find that you prefer a little less contact too after a bit of time apart - but don't get into a rut of thinking that, because she addressed the issue in an unpleasant way, there is nothing that could be changed. Afterall, she didn't say that she wanted no contact at all.

dallas Fri 11-Jan-19 13:19:35

I can so relate to this, I lost my darling Husband end of October after nursing him for 3.5 years and being told numerous times he only had a short time to live but he rallied every time but the last. To say it was emotionally dreadful would be an understatement. My son and Daughter were wonderful (his step children, my first husband passed away in 2000) and helped enormously. In the last few weeks my son thought my 6 year old Granddaughter, my daughters daughter, shouldn't be in the house (my husband wanted to die at home) with her ailing Grandfather, we spoke to the GP, District Nurses and Hospice Specialist Nurse to ask their advice, and they all agreed it was a good thing, except my son and DIL. My son kept on and on in earshot of my husband how bad it was until my darling husband asked me to tell him to be quiet, which of course I did, telling him I understood he was concerned for his little niece and even getting the medical team to speak to him, but he just wouldn't listen, after hardly any sleep for four weeks and watching my darling husband dying before my eyes I snapped one day and told my son to F..k off. I am deeply ashamed and told him so, but he just went on and on, also telling us how much money he was losing being off work to help, when I said to go back to work he has told people I didn't want him there. He hasn't spoken to me since then and ignored me at the funeral, I have written to him, sent Christmas cards and left a message on his house phone telling him I love him and the door is always open. He has blocked me and all his family on Facebook and mobile phone, friends have tried to talk to him telling him that I was just so exhausted and terrified at what was happening that I just had a moment but to no avail, he has now blocked them also. I honestly don't know what to do now, I have lost my husband, son and Grandson all at the same time. I am lost and struggling to understand how adult children can not understand and behave in such a way.

Step4gran Fri 11-Jan-19 13:35:22

I fell out with my younger brother and his partner, never in a million years would I have expected my mum to fall out with them too as the issue was between myself and them. I would send a letter to her explaining that whilst you understand she is angry/hurt with the situation, but you cannot choose between your kids - would she be able to choose between hers? I truly hope the lump is indeed nothing to worry about and that your daughter does see sense and reaches out to you xx

grandtanteJE65 Fri 11-Jan-19 13:43:25

I agree with those who say wait a little before contacting your daughter. You know best whether to do so immediately after your hospital appointment or not, and I do hope the lump turns out to be completely harmless.

Are you in contact with your son? It is difficult when our children quarrel. Is their quarrel the reason why your daughter "isn't speaking to you"?

May I suggest that you tell both your children that you love them equally and that you have no intention of being involved in their disagreements now that they are grown-up? I can't see any harm in mentioning that you would much prefer the whole family to get on with each other, but that if that is too much to ask, you could perhaps agree to have visits from them separately.

Please stay in touch, whatever happens. We will all be thinking of you until you get the test results, and until this (silly?) quarrel between your son and daughter blows over, and I hope, your daughter starts missing you.

Lynnebo Fri 11-Jan-19 14:07:56

I’m so sorry that you are going through such a harsh time OP and wish you well. I hope that your daughter is back in touch soon x

willa45 Fri 11-Jan-19 14:20:33

First things first. Be assured that your daughter still loves you despite everything you're telling us. She is hurting and you didn't take sides, like any good mother should. You have done nothing wrong by staying out of their squabble. Her words are driven by anger and nothing else.

Lumps often turn out to be just that.....'lumps'. Having said that, they usually turn out to be benign, most of the time.
Call your daughter anyway and tell her what's going on. You can say something like "I know you're upset, but I have something very important to tell you. My health and my life may be at stake and I understandably worried. There is nothing I need more right now, than to have you be there with me, because I don't want to face this all alone."

Re: lump. Even if your diagnosis is not what you wanted there are many successful treatments available and even people with cancer are living long, productive lives. Try not to worry and listen to your doctors. Praying for a very positive outcome for you (on both fronts) and sending you virtual hugs. flowers

Rosina Fri 11-Jan-19 14:33:22

Your daughter is probably hurt and shocked at falling out with her sibling, and wants your support to reassure her that she is 'right' in what she is doing. If she were being logical she would realise that you could not possibly cut off your other child because of a falling out that didn't involve you. She needs time to come round from this rather silly stance, but given your health concerns right now it might be a good idea to write or email to tell her what is happening, without referring to her quarrel with her sibling. If you don't tell her she might be equally shocked and hurt about that and find herself lashing out again in completely the wrong way.

I hope that the consultant can help you; nine out of ten lumps are nothing to worry about and the tenth can be dealt with very efficiently today, as many GNs on here can reassure you.

sharon103 Fri 11-Jan-19 14:34:21

I don't pussy foot around any one. If she was my daughter I would tell her to 'Grow up' and let her get on with it and leave it like that. Why should mums keep apologising and bowing down to adult children just to keep the peace. We in our family say what we have to say and then forget about it. I hope all goes well for you. You look after you. Hugs.

justwokeup Fri 11-Jan-19 14:50:16

Exactly what Step4gran said. I wouldn't tell her about the appt until you find out if there's anything to tell. I doubt she could choose sides between her children. I do think young parents are intrinsically selfish - survival instinct or something? - and sometimes it gets out of balance. Very best wishes for the appt.

breeze Fri 11-Jan-19 15:51:55

Please let us know how you get on at your appointment. Most lumps turn out to be nothing. I agree with everyone who said best not to push it right now with your DD. Concentrate on yourself until you know what's what. You can't take sides with your children. Could be worth pointing that out to your DD. Would she take sides if it were one of hers? You can't force her to remain on speaking terms with her sibling if they don't get on but it's unreasonable to expect you to take sides. Do nothing until you know if you are well, then perhaps point out to her that as a mother, you cannot take sides and ask her to consider how she would feel if she were put in the same spot with her own DC. I do wish you well with your worry over the lump and I very much hope it's nothing to add to your worries. flowers

Davidhs Fri 11-Jan-19 15:53:52

Sibling rivalry has been a fact of life since time began and in my close and extended family it happens quite a lot, the less fortunate blames someone else for what went wrong, anything but making the wrong decision themselves
In most cases it is choosing the wrong partner, one sibling choosing a bad partner, or even worse taking independance to extreme.
If you have a lump tell both, it can do no harm, it might even help, seeing you as vulnerable might just change their attitude.

David1968 Fri 11-Jan-19 16:14:05

The advantages of writing a letter are that it can be "thought-through" and worded carefully, before sending. And subsequently no-one can dispute what was said (unlike a conversation.) Sometimes this can be helpful - within a "dispute" situation.

luluaugust Fri 11-Jan-19 16:45:09

First I hope your appointment goes well. I think a short note along the lines that have been suggested would be ok, if you don't tell her about the appointment it could cause further upset. She may not reply straight away but she can't say she wasn't included. Good luck

ElaineRI55 Fri 11-Jan-19 16:57:32

So sorry to hear of these types of family fallings out. You are certainly not alone , ttgran, in experiencing this sort of issue.
I think a letter is good as it allows you to think through what to put and allows your daughter the chance to read it through carefully without the temptation to respond in anger to any particular point as might happen during a conversation.
Can you also gently get your feelings across to your SiL if he is bringing the grandchildren to visit - and just reinforce to him how much you love them all?
As others have suggested, maybe only tell your daughter about the lump after it has been checked. You can give her a call maybe at that point or write another letter.
Also, as she has children, suggest to her that she would want to support them both if they fell out with each other in the future and wouldn't want to choose sides.
There could be real/imagined hurts from years ago that have never been voiced by her. Your letter could maybe offer a general apology that you know there are things you could have done differently as a parent but you only ever wanted and still want the best for both your children (without being too grovelling - she isn't perfect either).
I think one of the main reasons for folk falling out is that we all bring different personalities and experiences to our relationships (even within a family), so can read feelings and intentions into the words and actions of others that are not what was intended. Your daughter has possibly done that with you. The fact that she is allowing you to keep up contact with the grandchildren offers a lot of hope, I think, that she realises how important family relationships are and still cares about you - and will come round fairly soon, hopefully.
I do hope that your lump is indeed benign and that your daughter can put this episode behind her and rebuild the closeness you had with each other.
All the very best. flowers

albertina Fri 11-Jan-19 17:20:24

The most important thing right now is that you look after yourself. That's what matters. Your health and welfare comes first.

I speak as the mother of two warring daughters, one of whom hasn't spoken to me for 4 months.

I wish you all the very best.

wellingtonpie Fri 11-Jan-19 17:39:57

I so hope all gets resolved for you ttgran. My heart goes out to you. ❤

muffinthemoo Fri 11-Jan-19 20:01:02

Hope the lump turns out to be nothing much. I had one out about ten years ago and it turned out to be a benign growth. The bloody awful scarring put an end to any prospects of a Page 3 career though...

Please try to keep positive and wishing you all the best xx

Onestepbeyond Fri 11-Jan-19 20:05:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

agnurse Fri 11-Jan-19 21:17:40

It's sad that your daughter has put you in the middle of her issues. Given that your children are adults, your best bet is to stay completely out of it.

I wouldn't recommend contacting her about the lump, at least until you know something. Lumps can be very scary but they aren't always cancer. She may perceive any contact about it as being an attempt to draw her back in, and if it turns out to be benign she may be suspicious of whether there was anything in the first place. (NOT saying that you're making it up, not at all, just saying that may be how she perceives it.)

I wish you all the best. The not knowing can often be worse than knowing.

icanhandthemback Fri 11-Jan-19 21:26:18

ttgran, that is a very hard and scary situation to be in on both counts, the daughter and the lump. I hope the latter can be resolved quickly and you are reassured that this is nothing to be worried about.
We often think that all the hard work of 'parenting' is done when our children have left home but it seems to me, when they are adults their problems just seem worse and you end up being the demon! I have one daughter who causes ripples throughout the family and my boys seem to have met women who do the same.
I have found that the best way forward has been to be as placatory as possible without taking sides. Eventually things settle down. With my daughter, I usually write a little note to tell her my door is always open and I am sorry if I have offended her but it was never my intention. My husband would rather I just told her to take a hike but her personality is such that she would do just that and whatever her faults, she is still my daughter who I love very much.
My sister and I are estranged. I have always said to my Mum that I don't expect her to get involved in my arguments nor would I ever test her loyalty. As a mother myself, I know how hard it is.

crazyH Fri 11-Jan-19 21:41:10

2 years ago, I noticed blood stains in my bra.....immediate GP appointment, followed by Hospital appointment and operation. Because of the bleeding, I feared the worst. As it happened it was benign.
In any case, most lumps are benign and even if they are found to be malignant, treatment has improved immensely. I wish you all the best. Also with your relationship with your daughter. I'm sure you will get back together. My daughter and I are not best friends. We do not phone or text daily. I do schoolruns when needed and occasionally do meals for them. I have 3 adult children....but none of us are in each other's pockets. I have 2 daughters-in-law, one extremely sweet, the other hmmmmm..say no more.
All the best Ttgran flowers

Shizam Fri 11-Jan-19 22:14:43

Try to keep lines of communication open in any way you can. It’s awful when this happens. I am supporting young person who has fallen out with her mother. It’s so frustrating when you see they could speak and yet don’t...Faults on both sides probably, but as a person who lost her mother as a child, it makes me so sad.

NanaWilson Sat 12-Jan-19 02:19:26

Let it be. She will come round. That’s my experience with these things

NannyEm Sat 12-Jan-19 06:28:34

I have always been in this precarious situation with two out of three of my children. Both think I have favoured the other. I feel for you and know what it is like to be cut out of a child's life, especially a daughter's. I didn't know where my daughter was for a year (no explanation was given). When I finally tracked her down I took a bottle of brandy to her flat where we discussed things over a few brandies and cokes. On the way home I fell down her steps and sprained my ankle so that helped us into a better relationship (at the time). Many times over the years she has held me to ransom over my grand daughter as she told me during any disagreements that I would not be allowed to see her. A couple of years ago after a short stay at her house to help her and my grand daughter she verbally attacked me so bitterly and unjustly that without saying too much I packed my car and drove the 5 hours back to my house. I think it gave her such a shock to find me gone when she returned from work that she has never treated me badly again. She still resents that my son lives with me (he has a physical and mental illness) but she and my grand daughter lived with me from the time she was 3 months pregnant until my grand daughter was 6. He is still resentful that she lived with me for that long but he has lived with me now for 3 years and each moment is like walking on eggshells so that he doesn't become physically or verbally abusive. I have tried every avenue but always have to accept my mantra "It is what it is". My conscience is clear that I have done what I can to help my children. I hope things get better for you. It does help to discuss things and get them off your chest (hence my ramblings).

moggie57 Sat 12-Jan-19 19:30:37

i would send her a card .say sorry but she she should be sorting out her own problems and not expecting you to side with her. tell her you have got some unexpected health problems and that she has truly hurt you... daughters do say the most hurtful things sometimes ,mine included. like she said her mil in law was her new mum on mothers day. (last year) and her husband's family have always called my d their grandaughter. which is not right. at moment my memory not that good and my d told me infront of 12 others people ."how many times do i have to tell you" . my reply the first time i burst into tears ,the 2nd time she said that . i told her "dont talk to me like that"!!!. but still she does say hurtful things .so i tend to write them in my diary.... and carry on regardlessly..

Polskasue Sat 12-Jan-19 22:42:29

Dear ttgran. You are being played as the piggy in the middle between your children . They are using your love and feelings of guilt to get you "on their side" in a dispute in which, as the parent you can only be neutral. You can only treat them both in exactly the same way - remain neutral - you are not in the argument they are in. Tell them both about your health worries and that you have to put yourself first - that you love them both and need them both at this time. That you love them equally and will not be drawn in to taking sides. Don't try to mediate the problem between them. They are adults and have to sort that out between themselves. Tell them that you will not be drawn into their argument. As much as it breaks your heart their current problems are not yours. Stay strong. Xxxx

elizaflowers14 Sun 13-Jan-19 06:23:06

Have also soent another Xmas totally bereft. I’ve sought professional advice as another flagrant disagreement with daughter resulted in my granddaughter being dragged from our home screeching that she doesnt want to go home. It’s an awful situation we are in. Daughter has been depressed for a long time. Ever since she’s been with her husband. Who, as soon as walk through the door at night put on headphones and played computer games with people all over the world. We moved away and she would spend hours on the phone to us. She broke down. We rescued her. Looked after her and she went back.

She then married him. We begged her to look at all the issues. No. She wanted to be a princess. He was snarling at us during the whole premarruage process. I invested heavily in her wedding both in money and all manner of treats and personal gifts. She asked me to do her flowers and I hear he had plenty to say about that. Incidentally afterwards I went on to train as a florist and have worked styling events for the most iconic brand. Been hugely successful. I was exhausted after her wedding. Did it all. Whilst MILaw and entourage sat around celebrating with champagne.

A pregnancy was announced. I began to feel down about it. Daughter very excited. Talking about all the fun times she had as a child. Very gently I remarked that I was afraid it wasn’t how it was going to be Every single event we had organised he turned up with face like a smacked backside and I began dreading.

Baby girl was born. He virtually took over and she allowed him. My daughter never one to resist taking them her quilt.

It was Obvious she’s depressed and I gave her time out by taking baby out once a week for a few hours. Organising little days out as soon as baby was about 18 months. Fun days to the seashore or picnic. Meals out.

I was bodily flung out of her home when baby nearly two. Door locked behind me. All because I had arranged for the three of us to go Alpaca walking and she didn’t want to go screeching at me that I could take her on my own. I had dared to say that perhaps a day out in the fresh air would do both her and little girl the world of good. They did not take little girl anywhere. Stayed in. Him near to his iPad which is also set up at the meal table which he looks at while daughter and baby eat in silence.

I was told they needed space from me and it was delivered by text whilst I was exhibiting at the RHS. I folded.

My son argued my corner. MILaw did absolutely nothing. But SILaw told me son after a few home truths hit home that I would never see her again.

This went on for two months. Eventuality their need to get space from baby overcome their need to have space from me.

My daughter put little girl into pre school. Before she was two. Just to give herself ‘me’ time. She did not work. We continued to take her and I have a library of videos of little girl having the time of her life.

Toilet training was an issue. Little girl so sore I wept. They knew best.

We were allowed to see her with a full set of rules. Including making sure she was put in her pushchair facing a wall so she would sleep. I was Overstimulating her apparently.

Daughter continues to have red raw hands. Open sores. And has OCD. They pay for counselling. I. Asked her to see GP. She’s “fine”. Everything is “fine”.

Counselling apparently. Was required to stop her having a bad mood around d her daughter. We have witnessed screeching at little girl and being shut in her room

Little girl,loves us to pieces. Always wants to just come to ours. Never wants to go home after a day out.

There is such a bond of love bwteen me and little girl. I feel therein lies the root if latest problem

We’ve seen little girl spend every weekend at their allotment. Bored to pieces. He takes everything he wants to do to the exclusion of all else. Seedlings litter every windowsill. Dining table. Everywhere. Was same with beer making.

We continued to take her out.

Latest blow up is we bought her a bike. A beautiful bike. I has asked daughter what she thought. She said they might like to buy a bike. I asked her when she would let me know. I never heard. I asked again. She didn’t reply. Going on past performance we thought she would never get one. We bought one to keep in the garage to use at our house. For this we got screamed at. I assured her it could stay under wraps in the garage until such time as they had bought one themselves. Would not steal their thunder. They went and bought bike after Xmas.

Two weeks ago. Daughter bought little girl round for the day . We had bought tickets for Mary Poppins. My daughter was stressed. Showed little girl the bike and daughter trying to find fault with helmet.

I simply asked her if SIL liked his Xmas present from us. Yes he loved. Could he not thank me. She’s screeching at me he’s miffed about the whole bike thing. I was told clearly not to buy it. Hurled little girl into car. Not a word since.

Tears are flowing. I can’t walk On eggshells anymore. We have no inter generational fun. No fun. No meals or days out with them. Although his side do. They do nothing for little girl. No gifts. No visits. Nothing I’ve bought her lovely clothes. Special dresses. I ve been asked to buy her warm coat. Vests. Snowsuits. Yet I’m told Ive bought to much. I’ve winced that her shoes are too tight.

At wits end. Think best to move away. I’ve had bad palpitations. Miss Little girl. Lots of posts in Fb about what they are up to. Cruel.

I’ve asked my friends about bike issue. All say should be grateful. I remember my daughters bike was bought by Grandad. Was delighted. Grateful.

Professional advice is he’s jealous of my energy. My creativity. Love from little girl to me. I’ve never ever
criticised. Chewed lip over and over.

If nobody comments. That’s ok. It’s been very cathartic just tap this out.

crazyH Sun 13-Jan-19 07:16:03

I have read your post Eliza but don't know what to say. You are doing your very best for your GD.
Looks like you are doing very well yourself . Congratulations on having an exhibit at the RHS. Carry on doing the things you're doing and keep yourself busy. Don't move away (I have also considered that many a time) , but as the saying goes, don't cut your nose to spite your face. Hope it all works out for you .
I have got lots of family issues as well....mainly with, but I gave to grin and bear it.
Good luck with everything.

Lynnipinny Sun 13-Jan-19 12:29:03

Good idea send them both an open card for your own words. Tell them you love both for their qualities. You will not take sides as its not air. Its more important to stick together and support each other. The grandchildren are more important than anyone else. They might realise how immature they are being. Get your health sorted best wishes.

icanhandthemback Sun 13-Jan-19 14:30:54

elizaflowers14, I think you are in a very tough place but there are a few things that stand out in your post that suggest that you may be overstepping the mark without realising you are doing it.
If you criticise her husband you are automatically putting yourself at a disadvantage as you will be playing into his hands.
Secondly, regardless about what you thought you were doing with the bike, keeping it at your house etc., you were giving the impression you were in competition with them.
How did you react when your daughter didn't want to go on the Alpaca walking. Did you just accept her decision or did you try to cajole her into it? Your intentions were probably very good but sometimes they are not perceived that way especially where PND is involved.
Can I humbly suggest that you talk to a relationships counsellor or similar? I say this because I felt quite virtuous about some of the things I tried to facilitate for my daughter when she was struggling to breastfeed. When my DS had a child and his wife was struggling, I thought I was being helpful to her and was horrified when my DD told me I was a breastfeeding Nazi. When I discussed this issue with my counsellor, I realised that I wasn't very good at reading the signals and was trampling blithely with my size 6's. I can't say I am perfect but I have had learned a few things about myself that I really hadn't realised. BTW, all my friends agreed with me too because they heard my side of the story.
I am sure you are very hurt and I am not saying that your daughter is completely right but sometimes when we look at what we bring to the table, it is helpful in healing the wounds.

Jaycee5 Sun 13-Jan-19 16:39:46

elizaflowers14 You obviously care a lot and meant well but I agree with Icanhandthemback. I simply don't understand the bike thing. Why were you so determined to buy it when you knew they wanted to? They might not have had the money or time right then but you knew it was something that they wanted to get. Bikes do seem to be a bit of a daddy milestone thing with their children.
It can be exhausting to be on the receiving side of gift and help and having to be Generous. It really is a case of seeing signal - and your son in law does seem to be throwing quite a few out.
He works all day and has a way of unwinding that you don't approve of.
She is a princess because she wanted to marry a man she had known for a while. She was excited about her pregnancy and you kindly put her straight about that. From her point of view it sounds as if you are bursting her bubbles.
Next time she has good news, whether you think it is or not, just be excited with her.
Maybe take your cue from the in laws who seem able to just relax and enjoy things.
Grandchildren often don't want to leave grandmas and go home. It doesn't mean that there is anything seriously wrong.
Did your daughter know that you had bought tickets for Mary Poppins? Stress can be serious and although it is annoying if you have spent money and looked forward to an event, what were you expecting from her? She can't just not be stressed to order.
You are trying too hard. Lighten up and go with the flow a bit more. If you want to buy something else and they say that they will do it, just let it go and think of something else.
It does sound as if your daughter does want to have a relationship with you and turns to you when she needs help but that she finds you a bit difficult. That is not an insurmountable problem.
Your son in law must be very aware that you disapprove of him but you are stuck with him now and there is no point in trying to warn her about him or think that he should do things differently. Do you ignore the seedlings and mess or do you look disapprovingly?
Just try to put yourself in their shoes for a bit. They are new to this parenting lark. They don't need to be told that things might not work out well or that they are not doing things right or to be subtly corrected. They probably also don't want events organised for them. Sometimes just a sit down and a cup of tea is nice is you are feeling stressed out.

Jaycee5 Sun 13-Jan-19 16:40:49

That should be 'having to be Grateful' rather than generous.

Jaycee5 Sun 13-Jan-19 16:43:26

Also 'she can't just be unstressed'.

moonbeames Sun 13-Jan-19 22:28:57

I am sending good wishes and love to you. I hope the lump turns out to be nothing. Look after your health at the moment. Let go of worrying about your daughter for a while, give her some space and respect her wishes. In time, I would send her a loving card saying that you love her and that you are sorry that you upset her. Don't justify anything. Take care of yourself first and foremost. Do nice things for yourself that you enjoy. Positive affirmations every day.

DanniRae Mon 14-Jan-19 12:20:47

Sorry Eliza but why do you buy special dresses when you are being asked to buy winter clothes for your grandaughter. I am sure that you mean well but you sound a bit pushy. I feel so sorry for your daughter, caught between you and her husband and trying to please you both. Step back and let them get on with their life - I think you feel that they can't cope without you but I suspect that they definitely can!

ttgran Fri 18-Jan-19 13:34:46

Hi just an update lump benign which is great news once again thank you all for your kind thoughts

DanniRae Fri 18-Jan-19 14:03:46

So pleased to hear that ttgran - flowers

Brismum Fri 18-Jan-19 14:06:38

That’s great news ttgran grin. Hope your other issues can be resolved soon. 💐 xx

Brismum Fri 18-Jan-19 14:09:40

Followed instructions to get grin! Didn’t work again. Will stick to keypad in future.😁 !

Mycatisahacker Fri 18-Jan-19 14:35:00

Great news.

My advice would be to tell your son in law how upset you are and as a parent you can’t take sides and would he take sides with their own children? Ask him would she?

I am sure she will calm down but you know don’t act like you were in the wrong as you are not. She is being ridiculous and very immature. I bet she will come to her senses in time and during that time enjoy your grandchildren and set them a better example of treating people than their mother is.