we can't stop going to the toilet,so how do WE solve the sewage issue?

WE don’t.

The water companies should. But the grubbing for profit has meant that they have failed to improve the infrastructure at treatment works.

They would rather pay the fines.

The government won’t tackle the water companies in case they risk their profits.

The EA is not supported by the government in its brief to keep our rivers and sea clean and its hands are tied with regard to penalties etc.

There isn’t a single argument that makes sense in support of a privatised water supply.

It should be nationalised.

Absolutely.

It's not something I've ever had to think about. I don't know who owns/runs sewage companies. Maybe local authorities?

Private companies Aveline.

I would just point out that when water was nationalised, there was sod all investment in what was so often ancient Victorian infrastructure. Dh was once involved in the water/sewage sector, and this is a fact, not an excuse for privatised shortcomings.

I’m not saying it shouldn’t be nationalised again, but let’s hope that if it is, the infrastructure will be better maintained, or replaced when necessary.

Witzend, when it’s nationalised, the money in the first few years will be spent building new administrative buildings and appointing new staff on huge salaries. Replacing the infrastructure will come after that. Or am I too cynical?

Sounds like it would take big money to renew or rebuild the Victorian infrastructure. It's hard to believe that anyone would want to invest in a private sewage company. Surely the sewage network should be nationalised.

what are we actually paying the companies for?

Mollygo

Witzend, when it’s nationalised, the money in the first few years will be spent building new administrative buildings and appointing new staff on huge salaries. Replacing the infrastructure will come after that. Or am I too cynical?

Not in my opinion
Add to that if and when the balance between profit and loss becomes critical, voila tax payer is waiting in the wings to 'nationalise' the water company.
Like the banks the tax payer stumps up again.

It will be a blooming big engineering job when the time comes.

If I had a choice, ( 😂 ) I'd rather see our money put into improving the infrastructure ect. than wasted on a vanity project like HS2.

In Scotland the water/sewage company is nationalised, not privately owned.

JaneJudge

what are we actually paying the companies for?

Installing water meters -which will, so I’m told reduce the amount people need to pay. So I have 3 questions.
1. When we’re all on water meters paying less (my bill was reduced by nearly 2/3) how will they get the extra money to make up the shortfall?
2. If we didn’t need to have been paying that much, what have they done with all that extra money?
3. Will the nationalised company immediately raise the cost on the metered charge (to set up their new business) to improve the infrastructure?

I also have anther question

What happens to the waste from housing in rural locations that have no mains sewage system but have modern cesspits that are emptied by private companies? Am I wrong to assume that the waste is dealt with responsibly and ethically? Are there laws to protect that this happens?

There was a thread about this a while ago and I was surprised (astounded) to learn that a lot of human waste is treated and then used as fertiliser on the fields.

I always knew that slurry smelled bad but I didn’t know why
🤔🤭😱

Jane J, I'm told the tanker takes it to to the local sewage works and discharges it into the municipal sewage waste. I think its quite expensive.
A true septic system shouldn't need emptying regularly as the bacteria break down the solids and the liquid drains away. That is if you haven't put loads and loads of detergents and things like bleach down the drain and killed all the good bacteria. It is organic.
I don't know how reliable that information is. Our septic tank is down the garden, and we've never had to have it emptied in 40 years. Its difficult, but I have to stick to 'natural' cleaning products as much as possible.

Yes, ExDancer there are different types of systems. I think the old brick built ones have a causeway type thing that just releases into the ground below? or something like that

The activated sludge system for septic tanks works only if all the sewage is free from bleach and similar killers of bacteria.

The general public cannot be trusted to keep to this rule. If you own your own activated sludge type of septic tank you will be very motivated to keep to the no-bleach rule

The modern septic tank does not need emptying - the bacteria treat the sewage and the treated liquid drains into the soil. We had one in France that lasted some 30 years without emptying. But old cess pits do need emptying. There was never a case for privatizing water other than profit for the Tories' friends and it should be renationalised without compensation. More investment needed for sewage works instead of paying dividends to shareholders.

all the systems on our row of houses are emptied, so some must need emptying. Ours is a modern one, it's a bit like a huge macerator

Local water treatment works using nano tubes is the only way to tackle the problem in the future, imo.
Perhaps when this system reaches the tipping point, the investment will be forthcoming?

Whitewavemark2

There isn’t a single argument that makes sense in support of a privatised water supply.

It should be nationalised.

I still disagree with this state version of how to run naturally forming monopolies although I agree there is a real problem with them. Just a few issues are:

1. Nationalisation has centralised control - often a long way from decision to action.
2. It gives less consumer choice. Nationalisation rarely recognises the differences in different part of the country.
3. There is little competition to learn from. This leads a lack of drive for change and a very powerful workforce (sometimes excessively so).

Obviously there would also be negatives for attempting to privatise natural monopolies but you are not suggesting that.

My answer would be communitisation. Letting communities run areas that make sense. Yes, the state would have to be involved in the provision of some commissioning and co-ordination and yes private industry would be part of it. However, in my view communities should play the central role. The arguments for either of the extremes have been shown, by experience, not to work.

This is a really interesting thread. Who would have thought sewage would be so interesting! Thank you for starting it infoman.

No one butting heads, just convivial conversation with interesting info.
Simples.

Lathyrus

There was a thread about this a while ago and I was surprised (astounded) to learn that a lot of human waste is treated and then used as fertiliser on the fields.

I always knew that slurry smelled bad but I didn’t know why
🤔🤭😱

When I was a child, my father used to get what was called ‘sludge’ (treated sewage) to put on the garden. It was quite safe and IIRC didn’t really smell.
Funnily enough, we used to get quite a few tomato plants sprouting out of it!