Percentages for vaccine

Thanks for the explanation growstuff.

I had a depressing conversation about this with my DD. Her area is neuroscience, so she would defer to any immunologists on here, but she said that, for example, 95% protection would mean that 95% of people would be protected. I had taken it to mean that you were 95% personally protected. As she said, there's no way of knowing whether you are in the vulnerable 5%. It doesn't sound like a large amount, but imagine a football crowd or the workers at a large company. 5% would still be quite a lot of people.

That's why DD thinks that social distancing, mask wearing, sanitising, etc ought to carry on even when everyone is vaccinated. Whether it will, of course, is another matter. Where she lives, in the USA, there are absolutely no restrictions and no suggestion of when they might be vaccinated. It turns out that Trump's administration had no plans for the vaccine roll-out. They are hoping Biden will be better.

She also said that this pandemic isn't the big one. There will be more, and the big one will be extremely infectious and have a high mortality rate. Of course, no one can predict when that will happen. Could be decades away or even longer. It is impossible to guess.

I just like to cheer you up on a Monday morning....But,seriously, even if the vaccine doesn't give complete protection, and we have to get used to some lifestyle changes, it's still the light at the end of the tunnel.

For those who queried 6 weeks, yes, it's true. I had the vaccination at a medical centre out of town. I was given a card to say I'd received the vaccination. Although I hadn't been given a date for the second, they told me it would be around the second week of March.

Yes I too thought that 95 % or whatever percentage, meant you were 95% covered but it seems it’s not. Still in any case it will be helpful, let’s just hope those who do catch it won’t be badly affected. No return to ‘normal’ for a long time yet.

It would be nice to have one jab! They seem to be vaccinating 70 year olds in Cumbria but they haven't done all the 80+ in our bit of N Yorkshire. Frustrating.

BigBertha1, if there is a refusal of accepting the vaccine, that person should be made to sign a disclaimer saying that they will not call upon the NHS should they become ill with Covid-19. I wonder how many would refuse the vaccine then?

We had the AstraZeneca vaccine yesterday and have been given a date for our second dose - in 10 weeks' time.

I am not particularly happy about the long gap as I understand that there is no research or data to support the efficacy of such an extended period but also understand the need to vaccine as many as possible with a first dose extending some protection.

A difficult problem and no easy answer.

We expect to be wearing masks and socially-distancing for many months to come - or longer.

The flu vaccine has 64% efficacy so that seems to work pretty well. I will however be masking up and avoiding crowds for the foreseeable future

BigBertha wouldnt mind if we got an invitation. So many people are worrying when/if they are going to get their jab that those refusals must be minimal. Why if one refuses is the next in line not offered that chance? Why are so many people on a local site feeling as I do? Who in their right minds in our area are refusing when we are pushing for mor appointments please?

Bluecat I hope the government is going to run a serious public health information campaign because it really seems that people don't understand the implications of vaccines.

I think it was a huge mistake to "sell" it as the way out of the pandemic. Yes, it's a positive step, but it really isn't a magic bullet. We don't yet know whether it prevents transmission, how long effects will last and how many people will have any protection. It really bothers me that people will start to drop their guard.

The one positive we are fairly sure about is that at a population level, the number of hospitalisations and deaths will drop. That should mean reduced pressure on the NHS, so that the people who are ill can be treated properly by staff who aren't exhausted and overstretched. It also means that treatments for other conditions can resume.

The only way that the pandemic can be "defeated" is to reduce transmission by restricting social contact. When the case incidence is low, it should be easier to pounce on isolated outbreaks. People then need every support available to self-isolate and prevent further transmission. That's the message that people like Van-Tam have been trying to get across.

One thing I am curious about is whether it’s absolutely essential that we have the same vaccine for both doses.

I imagine it would be desirable but it could be around June before I am due for my second (first possibly March) and by then the already approved Moderna one could be in use, and possibly others.

Presumably which one any of us has will depend on several factors, one of which of course, would be a plentiful supply.

Fizog

The flu vaccine has 64% efficacy so that seems to work pretty well. I will however be masking up and avoiding crowds for the foreseeable future

The flu vaccine is actually more effective than that against the strains which are the target of the vaccine. The trouble is that there are many different strains and the vaccine only targets a few of them. Medics try to guess which strains are going to be most prevalent, but sometimes they get it wrong. One year, it was only 29% effective because it didn't vaccinate against new strains.

The Covid vaccine currently only targets one strain and its efficacy will depend on how similar variants are to the original strain and whether the vaccine can be adapted to cope with new variants.

JenniferEccles

One thing I am curious about is whether it’s absolutely essential that we have the same vaccine for both doses.

I imagine it would be desirable but it could be around June before I am due for my second (first possibly March) and by then the already approved Moderna one could be in use, and possibly others.

Presumably which one any of us has will depend on several factors, one of which of course, would be a plentiful supply.

The government has said people should only be given different vaccines in exceptional circumstances. They work differently, so people won't get the full effect of two doses of the same vaccine.

Oh ok thank you.
I thought that was probably the case but then I began to wonder if we might possibly get better protection from two different vaccines which work in different ways like the Pfizer and AZ ones.

I was comparing it with how for instance some people take both paracetamol and ibuprofen together for certain pains.

Let's face it very little in life is 100% certain except death. Regardless of percentages you are better having a vaccine than not having it. I have no room in my brain to worry about things like that.

JenniferEccles

Oh ok thank you.
I thought that was probably the case but then I began to wonder if we might possibly get better protection from two different vaccines which work in different ways like the Pfizer and AZ ones.

I was comparing it with how for instance some people take both paracetamol and ibuprofen together for certain pains.

It doesn't work like that.

Well, it might....

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55228415

Interesting Alegrias1 Thank you.
We will have to wait for the result of that trial.

There must be a theoretical possibility that two different ones could work better or the idea would have been dismissed.

In the meantime we will be grateful for whichever one we are given.

Well that’ll be an interesting study. Nonetheless it would take a long time for the trial to be done and treatment to be licensed, so possibly something for the future.

As an Advanced Nurse Practitioner in general practice (now retired) who carried out annual flu vaccination clinics for many years, this is a question I was often asked in relation to the effectiveness of the flu jab. The most important thing to remember is that no vaccine confers 100% immunity to a disease! If the Covid-19 vaccine is 70% effective, then that will be the percentage who will acquire immunity to the disease though receiving the vaccine. The remaining 30% may not build up sufficient antibodies to the disease, even although they are vaccinated! It does mean that they have a slightly increased risk of getting Covid-19, but it's by no means certain this will happen, as it's dependent on many other factors. Viruses constantly change which is why we need an annual flu jab. Only time will tell us whether the Covid-19 jab confers immunity lasting for a long time, even lifelong, or whether we might need annual boosters! Hope this helps!

The vaccine is another one of the precautions we should be following to help control infection eg cleaning hands, surfaces, wearing masks. Just like all other vaccines it is not 100% failsafe.

I am having some difficulty processing the information regarding the vaccines. We are told that vaccination does not protect against contracting the virus, but will reduce the severity. Also it will probably not prevent transmission to others. Considering that the majority of people previously having contracted the virus were either asymptomatic, or only mildly affected, how can they quantify this? If you have been vaccinated and then develop a serious reaction to the virus you'll be in the unfortunate percentage for whom it is not effective, but mild ,or no symptoms will show the vaccines success (even though this would probably have been the outcome without the vaccine). Further, if the vaccine does increase the number of people contracting the virus being asymptomatic, some schools of thought suggest that it is this aspect of the disease that causes the high level of transmission.

Squirrelnutkin I thought the same as you. Otherwise it would just be like Russian roulette

EllanVannin

I was told yesterday that the vaccine I had ( AstraZeneca ) has a high level of immunity. I don't know how high as I haven't read up about it. The second dose is in 6 weeks time.
However I still have to stick to the rules

I had mine on Saturday too - did you have any side-effects? I was fine till the evening then had shivers and shakes and I felt a bit flu-ish all Sunday. Fine again today!

Remember we may still be carriers despite vaccinations

My brother is a retired professor of pharmacology. His first comment on the vaccine was “Don’t think it will make you immune”. He was pretty keen to get his, though!