The Media Virus - are we being manipulated?

I've watched the whole interview. The more I listened to them, the more compelled I felt to listen to the very end.

She talks of trust in people. Through trust you have belief. I do believe he is right about it being difficult to know who to trust. I very rarely, these days, make any comments on threads here but this has made me want to. My beliefs have been questioned in the past and I refused to be persuaded otherwise (groupthink) so I stop posting.

I do read a lot of GN threads. I work outside so the weather has forced me to take shelter with my laptop! My current interest are the threads about Cummings. I've probably found 8 threads now that are directly or indirectly about him.

Putting Cummings aside - and remembering a range of threads, it's clear from comments I read on some of the forums, just how much some GNers believe the media and trust political parties at a national level. There is also a lot of confusion running through GN comments, on what is to be believed.

Another interesting reference was that about Sweden and also about WHO alongside the individual scientists. The figure about deaths per million needs discussing.

I hope the NUJ to take that vote again. Am I right in remembering he said it was lost by one vote?

I too wish we could have a government that we own and trust. At a local level I do believe we can. I haven't voted at a General Election for a long time. My thoughts on this are the same as Henry Widdass.

We do need to demand why Google and Youtube have censored reports from medical experts that conflict with WHO. I should imagine they censor more than that.

He's right in that fear is a controlling weapon.

It interesting to read the comments about the video. Anna refers to "Groupthink" . Had to look this up. Groupthink occurs in groups when individual thinking or individual creativity is lost or subverted to stay within the comfort zone of the consensus view. We need some brave journalists to start engaging critical thinking - to quote Anna.

Corbett Report on my 'to read' list

Thanks NancyC2 and I apologise that my comments have jumped around a bit.

So if Covid is not the reason how do you account for the fact that compared with the average in previous years the number of deaths in the UK is now approx. 60,000 more than that average since the start of the pandemic.

Thank you Woodmouse49 for your very interesting comments.
Do not fear about making comments on these threads, your beliefs are just as important than anyone else's.
Like you I hope the NUJ take the vote again as yes, it WAS only lost by one vote as you said.
Anna has worked both for the BBC and ITV. It was her dream to work for Panorama, but she says now she can't think of anything more abhorrent than working for them.
In a video with journalist Robert Stuart, Anna questioned a 2013 Panorama episode entitled Saving Syria’s Children. Robert Stuart alleges that the BBC broadcast faked injuries of children in Syria, while the UK parliament was considering its foreign policy towards the country.

It is so important we don't rely on one source of news - we need to read and research more to find out more.
I enjoyed reading your comments.

I rarely read the papers.

I do believe that the high number of deaths have been caused by Covid.

Fear can be used to control - and there are times (such as now) when it SHOULD be.

Statistics can sometimes hide the human story, Nandalot. Answers are 'out there.'

How many people have really died from Covid-19?

Since the outset, you heard a death toll mentioned in the media each day, until recently when it told us how many more people had died in hospitals after a positive test. The government now adds the number of deaths after a positive test in other locations. Some call this number “the official death toll”.

Some of the people who died “with” Covid-19 did not actually die “from” it, which is true, according to the death certificates.
Analysis by the ONS found that 14% of the death certificates mentioning “Covid-19” in March did not list the disease itself as the “underlying cause of death”. It also found that deaths from ischaemic heart disease— one of the biggest killers in the UK—were 26% below the average for the month. This could mean that Covid-19 killed some people who were already close to death, but it could also mean that some heart disease deaths were being attributed to Covid-19 incorrectly.
Some scientists disagree with other scientists.
All facts have to be looked - we need to wait longer until reliable data can be shown - or will it??

Fear should NEVER be used to control, Luckygirl. Have you listened to the interview?

Yes AGAA4, there has been undoubtedly, a high number of deaths from Covid which is heartbreaking.
However, how can you just believe, as a 'point of view' without facts based on proper evidence?

I may be wrong but is Covid a certifiable disease which has to be mentioned on the death certificate? Please correct me on this if it isn't.

If that is the case then just as an example a man was taken into hospital with severe heart failure. He caught Covid and died shortly afterwards.

His death may have been added to the Covid figures but he was more likely to have died of heart failure.

I don't believe everything we are told.

Not watched the interview yet but will do this evening

Very interested in your comment about groupthink.

It's very difficult to express an alternate view on social media and forums these days

People just don't bother due to the backlash that ensues

Woodmouse49, it's a shame you feel unable to contribute to the threads on here, but free-thinkers are not encouraged. There are other sites with a more open-minded attitude, as I'm sure you have discovered.

We are manipulated by the media, there is no doubt about it. I constantly struggle to find a news site which does actually report the news. So much of it seems to be different people's opinions.
It's obvious that the tv producers pick and choose what to include in their bulletins. They want to influence our thinking and only show the items which suit their criteria.
There are so many areas where the government try to brainwash us.

NannyC2, I am not talking about deaths which have been attributed to a Covid 19, but the number of excess deaths above the usual norm expected during the months that Covid has been prevalent. It is irrelevant whether the people concerned were tested or their deaths recorded as being the result of Covid. These are an extra 60,000 deaths, if Covid is not the cause what do you think it could be?

I have listened to it.
We are manipulated by the media.
Governments have always tried to brainwash us to one degree or another.

These are givens - along with a lot of other negative things that are part of human existence.

The question at the moment is what to believe in relation to coronavirus. The bottom line is that a pandemic like this was just around the corner - all scientists knew this. And now it is here. At what point do you stop believing because you trust neither the government nor the media?

Do we disbelieve that the virus exists?
Do we disbelieve the death statistics?
Do we disbelieve the infection statistics?
Do we believe that the reports from hospitals are concocted?
Do we disbelieve the necessity of a world-wide reaction to the virus?
Do we believe that people should not be afraid of the virus?
Do we believe governments should have done nothing at all?

I am sure that the collection of stats has been flawed in a big way, because of the flawed testing system and the time lag before tests were put in place. Some people would indeed have died anyway, Covid or not. My OH died of pneumonia in February - did he have covid? - I do not know.

There is no question that fear is a factor - people should be afraid of coronavirus - it is a novel virus that has been waiting in the wings for a long time and will mutate. My life has been spent in the company of medics, including my OH - they were on no doubt that this was about to happen. Humankind has always been at the mercy of viruses. That is a biological fact, not propaganda spin.

The sad thing is that we have a travesty of a government whose grasp of the word integrity is nil - precisely nil.

Responding to the interview above, what do you think we should be doing? Ignoring the guidelines? Starting a revolt? Refusing to believe that action to counter the spread is needed?

The word control is very emotive - but in order to control the spread of the virus, a degree of control of people's actions is inevitable.

Where is truth? How do we know where it is?

I have no trust in either the government or the media - but I do trust the scientific brains that have surrounded me all my life, and still do - they believe the preventive steps are necessary - I choose to believe them.

Boris said today he "doesn't read the scientific evidence" maybe thats why the death toll IS so high ,might be an idea if he knew what was happening in the country he's supposed to be PM of

Just managed to get back to my laptop, AGAA4.
You asked if it is correct that Covid 19 is a certifiable disease which has to be mentioned on the death certificate? Yes, it was added on 5 March 2020 when a statutory instrument was made into law.
In an emergency period like that of COVID-19, there is a relaxation of previous legislation concerning completion of the medical certificate cause of death (MCCD).
If before death the patient had symptoms typical of the COVID infection, but the test result was not received, it apparently would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death.
You are quite right about your example - the man, admitted for heart failure, subsequently, catching the virus could well have been recorded as Covid despite the underlying heart failure which accentuated his death?

What is a concern are the sites and channels on the web that are being shut down by the likes of Google and YouTube because they give alternative or extra information. The thought police are moving in and we are being fed the party line. Luckily I have the younger members of my family who share this other world with me...so Be Alert!

Hi Nandalot
To address your question regarding the 60,000 excess deaths compared with other years.

The ONS(Office of National Statistics), uses excess deaths as its primary indicator. It said that on Tuesdayfor example, that the total of 4,385 excess death registrations in the week ending May 15 was distorted because it included deaths that were not registered the previous week when offices were shut for the VE Day public holiday. usually, deaths occur on average four days before they are registered.
One of the big factors of course is deaths in Nursing/Care Homes which was very badly handled especially sending patients from hospitals back into Homes without testing.

Another good source of what is going on can be found on Politico
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzOa6eB9l8E&t=684s

Polico's video was taken down by You Tube - see above. It will be done again. Do watch - you will be glad you did.
It contained information charts - (Covid death data in England update 21st May), and was given out by a
factual source - the Centre for evidence based medicine.

Surprise, surprise, the BBC have now done a bizarre U-turn saying the same as what Politco reported - word for word on the video taken down by You Tube !!

If Johnson had read a few scientific reports maybe he wouldn't have been shaking hands with people and putting himself at risk of catching the virus. Which he did. And, even now all he seems to be able to talk about, protection wise is washing your hands. I've heard/watched plenty of scientific stuff on utube that questions what the WHO says.

I’m not into these conspiracy theories and, having a background in the biological sciences, I find nothing unbelievable about the course of this pandemic. In fact it was predictable.

I’m pleased that Facebook is taking down misinformation, that YouTube are, at last, doing the same and that Twitter is earmarking Trumps lies and directing the public to the facts

Furret it worries me that anything that gives another view on the situation is classed as a conspiracy and is deemed unacceptable for us to digest by the likes of Google, FB and YouTube. I like to read every angle and make my own mind up.

To be honest, I really don't know what or who to believe any more.

On the face of it, if there are so many more excess deaths than is normal for a period of time then it points to the virus as being responsible.

But there is also the issue of doctors reporting that there has been a drop of about 50% of people attending A&E with symptoms indicative of serious conditions, such as stroke, heart attack, etc, etc. Is it possible that some of these people have added to the death figures because they didn't attend for emergency treatment?

There is obviously a virus but it's possible some of the figures are incorrect - though some people say deaths caused by the virus are actually under reported. It's all very confusing.

I am concerned, though, that there seems to be a lot of material taken down from the internet now, on the grounds that it is false. I think it's fair enough to add a warning comment that the contents may be unreliable and that several other commentators and experts disagree - but to actually remove comment is a bit of a worrying trend in my opinion.

We're reaching a point where we are going to have to pick and choose where to shop safely because some places of business aren't using masks- Customers frequenting those businesses aren't either, they don't social distance, and they're now giving people dirty, annoyed looks if they do wear masks and just seem to be impatient and on edge-

Cases are once again increasing, as are hospitalizations and deaths-

There’s a difference between being ‘given another view’ and a load of bollocks!

Very erudite and enlightening Furret.