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“By the end of winter, pretty much everyone in Germany will probably be vaccinated, recovered or dead,”

(174 Posts)
MayBeMaw Tue 23-Nov-21 08:37:41

“By the end of winter, pretty much everyone in Germany will probably be vaccinated, recovered or dead,” Jens Spahn, the German health minister is quoted as saying yesterday in a press conference.
Realist? Pessimist? Fatalist? Is this what they mean by herd immunity, perhaps.
With Austria under lockdown, riots with live ammunition in the Netherlands, riots even in peaceful little Switzerland, and now this, can we really be optimistic that we have actually got Covid under control?

Lucca Tue 23-Nov-21 08:49:31

It is an absolute mess isn’t it ? So no we haven’t got control.
I admit to being very conflicted on this. I am very pro vaccinating and Pro mask wearing but also worried about the “freedom” aspect. But does there come a point where the interests and safety of the community have to take precedence over personal choice/freedom ? Think of those people who won’t be able to get hospital treatment because wards are full of unvaccinated Covid sufferers, who would probably have not needed hospitalisation if vaccinated.

Sarnia Tue 23-Nov-21 08:51:49

Lucca Absolutely spot on with how I feel.

TopsyIrene06 Tue 23-Nov-21 08:56:06

Spot on Lucca

Charleygirl5 Tue 23-Nov-21 08:58:49

If we had not had so many deaths and really serious long, drawn-out illnesses I may have been conflicted but not any longer- I agree wholeheartedly.

Elegran Tue 23-Nov-21 09:25:46

It may have been a bald statement aimed at getting the doubters to accept the vaccine and thus cut down the impact of CoVid. Some people wait to make up their minds until they are right up against the consequences.

Urmstongran Tue 23-Nov-21 09:48:43

I agree with you Elegran.

Baggs Tue 23-Nov-21 10:09:56

I agree too, elegran, but I did take a look at stats from Sweden, which has been a bit of an outlier as regards approach to the disease.

maddyone Tue 23-Nov-21 10:38:19

I realise it’s not nice, and I feel wary about admitting it, but I actually despise people who refuse to be vaccinated. I’m very afraid that our way of life has been, and continues to be threatened by this horrible virus. It’s racing through Europe now, and I don’t really care what the politicians say, our numbers are far too high as well, despite vaccination. So I feel a certain amount of anger towards those people who are refusers the vaccine. We need everyone to think not only of themselves, but think of everyone else too. I have absolutely zilch understanding of people who are rabidly anti vaccination.

Alegrias1 Tue 23-Nov-21 11:18:09

I just can't bring myself to support compulsory vaccination.

Of course we should all get vaccinated as soon as we can. I had my booster last week and I'm grateful for it. But I just can't support the idea that people have to be coerced into any medical intervention. Where does it stop?

I think the people who refuse it are daft to do so, but making things like this compulsory won't help. It will entrench the concern that some people have about it, and that will last a lot longer than this pandemic.

I believe in Vienna they arranged appointments for everybody who had not had the vaccination. I don't think it is yet compulsory for people actually to turn up. That seems sensible. Make it as easy as possible. Take away all the barriers.

There will still be people who refuse because they are thrawn (good Scots word). Making it compulsory won't make them have it, it will make them riot.

Redhead56 Tue 23-Nov-21 11:25:33

Triage system in place in hospitals and now our health centres. The assignment of degrees of urgency to wounds or illnesses to decide the order of treatment. We were all advised to be vaccinated to protect ourselves and others and help slow down the virus spreading. Therefore people unvaccinated should be at the bottom of the list when it comes to treatment or hospital beds.

Alegrias1 Tue 23-Nov-21 11:26:56

People are advised not to smoke, but we still treat them when they get ill.

Namsnanny Tue 23-Nov-21 11:28:04

I agree I principle with the right of freedom to choose.
Bit if as in Austria, the hospital mortuary are already full and bodies cant be delt with. How long before hospitals are rendered too overwhelmed to cope?
There will be more than riots then.
It isnt necessarily a slippery slope situation.

Alegrias1 Tue 23-Nov-21 11:34:22

The slippery slope is about submitting to medical interventions you don't want.

Today, you have to have an injection because it's for everyone's good.

Tomorrow, you have to get sterilised because there are too many people in the world.

I know that's extreme. I'm being provocative.

maddyone Tue 23-Nov-21 11:35:38

Of course people need to be able to choose, but I can’t help depising those who choose to not get vaccinated. I don’t know what the answer is, I wish I did. It will be both interesting and very sad as we watch what happens in Europe this winter.

Urmstongran Tue 23-Nov-21 11:40:25

I just can't bring myself to support compulsory vaccination

Me neither Alegrias. As I said on another thread, what are they going to do - pin them down?

This type of talk is scary.

Namsnanny Tue 23-Nov-21 11:43:37

Only 6% of our hospital beds are taken up with Covid patients.
The difficulty with Austria (and Germany) is the financially strong alternative medicine industry. There are state funded homeopathic hospitals.
The gov. is faced with decades of entrenched thought about vaccine safety. Germany has a history of having the highest anti vaxx groups.
Now that ideology is being tested, and people dont change their ideas very quickly.

Casdon Tue 23-Nov-21 11:48:08

It’s very misleading to say 6% of the hospital beds in the UK are taken up with covid patients namsnanny. Remove beds for mental health, learning disabilities, children, maternity, cancer services, trauma etc. which are not suitable or available for general medical patients or those with Covid from the equation, and the percentage is much higher than that.

Alegrias1 Tue 23-Nov-21 11:49:46

I think we console ourselves with the statement that there are lots of anti vaxxers in other countries, but the facts say different.

Double vaxxed in the UK, 68%

Double vaxxed in Austria, 65%

Double vaxxed in Germany, 67%

The whole situation is vastly more complicated than anyone knows. Anyone.

Namsnanny Tue 23-Nov-21 11:51:24

Alegrias1

The slippery slope is about submitting to medical interventions you don't want.

Today, you have to have an injection because it's for everyone's good.

Tomorrow, you have to get sterilised because there are too many people in the world.

I know that's extreme. I'm being provocative.

Of course your right to be worried. I am too. Gov. are made of people, and people are known to be corrupt, or at the least push an agenda useful to them, when able.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems as if some countries in Europe are at a cross roads, and have to make some serious decisions.

As I see it we can only hope that people are persuaded to re think their attitudes towards vaccination in the coming weeks.

maddyone Tue 23-Nov-21 11:55:35

Yes, it’s an extremely complicated situation. I don’t think we’re through this yet, despite what the government are urging us to believe. I know our hospitals aren’t (yet) filled up with Covid patients, so why with similar rates of vaccination, is Austria struggling? Maybe they have fewer hospital beds.

Namsnanny Tue 23-Nov-21 12:02:33

Casdon

It’s very misleading to say 6% of the hospital beds in the UK are taken up with covid patients namsnanny. Remove beds for mental health, learning disabilities, children, maternity, cancer services, trauma etc. which are not suitable or available for general medical patients or those with Covid from the equation, and the percentage is much higher than that.

Yes stats are changeable depending on what point you wish to make.
Nevertheless, hospitals in the UK arnt overflowing with corpses. Or so overwhelmed with caring for very sick Covid patients that they cant cope.

By that criteria I would suggest we are in a better position than say Austria is atm.
BTW, this isnt a nah nah na nah na! Situation for me.
I'm grateful I live here but wish other countries had better covid outcomes too.

lemongrove Tue 23-Nov-21 12:04:01

I think the statement ( in the OP) of what the German Health Minister said, could be applied to all countries.After all it’s quite a wide statement.

Namsnanny Tue 23-Nov-21 12:06:53

Casdon

It’s very misleading to say 6% of the hospital beds in the UK are taken up with covid patients namsnanny. Remove beds for mental health, learning disabilities, children, maternity, cancer services, trauma etc. which are not suitable or available for general medical patients or those with Covid from the equation, and the percentage is much higher than that.

Yes stats are changeable depending on what point you wish to make.
Nevertheless, hospitals in the UK arnt overflowing with corpses. Or so overwhelmed with caring for very sick Covid patients that they cant cope.

By that criteria I would suggest we are in a better position than say Austria is atm.
BTW, this isnt a nah nah na nah na! Situation for me.
I'm grateful I live here but wish other countries had better covid outcomes too.

MerylStreep Tue 23-Nov-21 12:19:47

The CEO of AZ has a different take on it.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10233473/Europe-hit-wave-Covid-partly-didnt-use-AstraZenecas-jab-suggests-vaccine-maker.html