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In the Net of Grans

(45 Posts)
Mamie Tue 08-May-12 07:27:53

I was listening to my three year old, bilingual grandaughter talking to her cousins the other day and pausing before saying that her doll was, "in the house of Mummy and Daddy". It made me think how we use use the possessive form in English. Lynne Truss says that the pesky, old apostrophe didn't exist before the sixteenth century, but I understand that the form of words "in Mummy and Daddy's house" comes from much earlier in English. Does it exist in other languages? Does it make things quicker / easier to say in English?

Greatnan Thu 10-May-12 16:29:36

The French I know seem to think they are a pure breed, but if you look at the fragmentation of the country in the Middle Ages into several small kingdoms it seems they are just as much mongrels as the Brits. And of course the Basques, Catalans and Corsicans still do not regard themselves as French.

gracesmum Thu 10-May-12 16:15:51

mamie grin

Anagram Thu 10-May-12 16:10:06

grin

Mamie Thu 10-May-12 13:55:59

Interestingly among our Norman neighbours there are still some folk with red hair and beards (the chaps that is...).

Anagram Thu 10-May-12 11:42:24

Well, there were some French in the Norman army....hmm

Mamie Thu 10-May-12 11:40:17

Yes, I keep trying to explain that we are not just Anglo-Saxon any more, but you still hear it all the time - Anglo-Saxon media, banks, attitudes, morality... Seems bizarre to me..

jeni Thu 10-May-12 11:18:09

And they were Northmen!

absentgrana Thu 10-May-12 11:13:27

Greatnan That was Normans not the French.

Greatnan Thu 10-May-12 10:32:30

I am surprised the French still regard us as Anglo-Saxons, given what happened in 1066!

Mamie Thu 10-May-12 09:46:18

Funny really when Europeans keep referring to us as "Anglo-Saxons". You would think we would need to keep up with our chronicles, especially in the Anglo-Saxon media...

absentgrana Thu 10-May-12 09:14:17

Ariadne In my day Old English, including the first half of Beowulf, was compulsory, as were the Scottish Chaucerians. Neither features in a London University BA now. sad

Mamie Thu 10-May-12 07:25:56

Well I think that chez moi or chez nous or whatever would be the phrase used. However, I have read (Bill Bryson?) that there is no distinction between house / home or mind / brain in French.
I think my GD was translating "en la casa de mamá y papá".

Greatnan Thu 10-May-12 07:09:31

There is no word for 'home' in French , or at least I have not been able to find one. My google translation site just gives 'maison'. Funny that, when the French are so home-oriented.

Mamie Thu 10-May-12 06:49:45

I think (and please correct me if I am wrong French speakers) that "chez Maman" would imply in Mummy's house, which might or might not be my house. Chez moi, even if I wasn't there at the time, would be more likely, I think. My grandaughter was translating in her head from Spanish, though. I found it interesting, because the conventional wisdom is that bilingual children speak one language or the other without translation, but she was clearly thinking in Spanish - but then it was her first visit to England.

jeni Wed 09-May-12 21:11:53

bags don't you 'run mrssages' have an 'ashet' and a 'gigot'of lamb?

specki4eyes Wed 09-May-12 20:56:22

I would say, "la poupee est chez Maman". Is that incorrect?

Greatnan Tue 08-May-12 23:47:55

Ariadne.......'Cette sauce de haute qualite.....' I bet you have read that frequently! I now carry a small book of sudoku in my handbag so I am never without something to amuse me if I have to wait somewhere.

Ariadne Tue 08-May-12 17:00:52

Love all this!

Modal verbs. Is that not a cover all?

Bags Beowulf?

Loved Anglo Saxon but it clashed in Y2 with Greek Drama, which fitted better with Eng. Lit.

This the woman who will read almost anything, if pushed!

Bags Tue 08-May-12 12:08:56

grin gracesmum.

Now, some work is needing done around here. (Scottish usage)

gracesmum Tue 08-May-12 12:03:40

When a pedant gets upset I just say "Their, they're, there" grin

Bags Tue 08-May-12 12:01:54

Or is it nearer to what in greatnan's post was called the general certainty?

Bags Tue 08-May-12 12:00:13

Is that usage subjunctive as well?

Bags Tue 08-May-12 11:59:56

Thanks, absent, but you could also say "he might have killed himself" about a person who is dead and is suspected of having committed suicide, but the facts of the killing/dying process are not known even though the fact of the deadness is. The meaning and connotations are different but the verb 'might have' is the same.

Mamie Tue 08-May-12 11:53:30

Be that as it may!
Wish I could use it instinctively in French - I do after il faut que, but struggle with remembering the rest.

absentgrana Tue 08-May-12 11:45:29

Bags Oh yes we do. May and might again.

He may have killed himself i.e. the dead man might have committed suicide.
He might have killed himself i.e. he narrowly avoided death.