Gransnet forums

Estrangement

Hi, new here. How are you?

(65 Posts)
RaisedByWolves Sat 14-Sep-19 20:12:32

Raised by a very toxic mother I suspect is a narcissist. No contact for 6 years now. Female, 46 years old. New nanny.

Introduce yourself!

Smileless2012 Sat 14-Sep-19 20:29:59

Congratulations on being a new nanny.

I am 58 years of age, estranged from my youngest son and only grand children for almost 7 years due to the weakness of our ES and his wife who we suspect is a narcissist.

We are from the outset coming from complete opposites of the estrangement spectrum. Can we share and learn from one another? I hope so.

RaisedByWolves Sat 14-Sep-19 20:40:01

Hello Smileless, sad name. I don't think we are on opposite ends of a spectrum if we have both been victims of a narcissist x

RaisedByWolves Sat 14-Sep-19 20:43:08

Would you recommend any good reading or resources here?

Smileless2012 Sat 14-Sep-19 21:20:19

Well yes it is sad name depending on how you interpret it. I know some think because of my name I don't smile at all, I do just less than I used too but as time passes I smile more.

I should explain. I've been posting here on GN for almost 7 years and sometimes it's difficult for an estranged parent to understand and appreciate why and adult child estranges themselves from their own parents.

Simultaneously, it can be difficult for an abused adult child to comprehend an adult child estranging themselves from loving, caring and decent parents.

I honestly can't recommend either good reading or resources for you, raised by a toxic mother for which I'm sorry by the way, as all of my reading has been from the perspective of a mother who once had a wonderful relationship with her son, as did his father, until he married and became a father himself.

I hope I haven't put you off posting here and welcomesmile.

RaisedByWolves Sat 14-Sep-19 21:29:37

Smiling is important. I think sometimes you just have to get up and decide to have a good day then make it happen.

I'll understand what people tell me, crappy people are everywhere. I know I wouldn't estrange someone without a bloody good reason, but can't talk for anyone else.

Smileless2012 Sat 14-Sep-19 21:34:24

Oh good, I haven't put you offsmile.

Yes, crappy people are every where and when they're a member of your own family, it stinks doesn't it.

RaisedByWolves Sat 14-Sep-19 21:39:29

Yes. No argument there. People with NPD are extremely good at what they do to the point they can drive their victims crazy. I am sorry your son has been a victim of that. I hope he will wake up one day and you will be able to be there for him again.

phoenix Sat 14-Sep-19 21:43:17

Hello RaisedByWolves, and welcome to GN.

Forgive me, but I won't " introduce" myself, other than to say " I'm phoenix, how do you do? "

Not quite sure what else you might want????

Smileless2012 Sat 14-Sep-19 21:43:21

That's very kind of you but after almost 7 years I don't think it very likely.

Apart from his older brother he's estranged his entire family and TBH I think the only reason they have limited contact is because our DS (dear son - we use a lot of abbreviations here that you may not be familiar with) lives in Aus. so his wife doesn't see him as a threat.

RaisedByWolves Sat 14-Sep-19 21:50:07

Ive been making guesses at the abbreviations I don't know, think I'm probably right.

Just saying hi Pheonix, didn't mean to be nosey. I like your name.

I have been waiting to graduate to gransnet, then saw there was an estrangement forum and thought, aha! Wonder how many nans are in my situation

Smileless2012 Sat 14-Sep-19 21:59:31

Good for you for dipping your toe into the water. I remember the first time I posted and waited for someone to reply. Didn't take long; there are some great people on here.

Only took me 17 minutes to respond to you, not that I'm boasting or anything or including myself as one of the great people on herehmm.

RaisedByWolves Sat 14-Sep-19 22:07:16

Lol, I would be faster but, crappy Internet much to my children's disapproval

Smileless2012 Sat 14-Sep-19 22:17:55

How old are your children?

RaisedByWolves Sat 14-Sep-19 22:37:11

I have 2 teens still at home

EllanVannin Sat 14-Sep-19 22:41:18

You're young enough to put it behind you.

BradfordLass72 Sat 14-Sep-19 22:45:12

Welcome Smileless2012 I think my ambition is to see you revising your name to SmilingMore2020 grin

My elder son cut himself off from me and his brother about 17 years ago.
Two weeks before the letter came, we had been having regular long, chatty phone calls and he'd sent me a laptop and 3 weeks later, one for his brother. He lived and still does, in Australia.

The catalyst was his girlfriend. She knew me well and I liked her but she was jealous of the good relationship I had with both boys and said she wanted to come first.

This letter from my son told me I had done and said things (according to the GF) which were so far from the sort of things I would do that if I hadn't been so shocked, I'd have laughed.
I was given an ultimatum, apologise or no contact.

I wrote and said I would gladly apologise for something I'd done to hurt her but the things in the letter just hadn't happened.
And that was that. Silence.

At first, the younger boy wrote to his brother, with whom he'd been exceptionally close all his life, saying 'You know Mum better than that, do you honestly believe she'd say or do such things?'
And he was cut off too.

My only conclusion is that he was given an ultimatum 'your Mum or me' and having initially chosen me, because he had formerly been very protective of me, she decided to up her game and make sure all contact, even by phone, was broken.

I suspect she felt that by going to Australia, her idea, it would be too hard to keep in touch but both my sons are in IT so it was easy.

When my son and gf eventually broke up, maybet he began to wonder if she'd been lying to him but couldn't bring himself to climb down off his high horse and contact me.
But that's only speculation.

I can talk about it now, all this time later, without weeping but when I was 70, I confess I hoped there might be some sort of message. But no.

In the end, we all make choices and I have to respect my son's choice in this.

He is now without any family contact at all and almost 50. Will he feel that as he gets older?
Only time will tell but I may be long gone and to be honest what this did to me, made my younger son so bitter against him, I can't see the brothers, formerly as close as twins, ever reuniting.
That's the saddest thing of all.

Smileless2012 Sat 14-Sep-19 22:57:06

Awww BradfordLass if not in 2020 than hopefully not too far into the future I'll be able to realise your ambition and change too SmilesMore20..

That awful ultimatum 'me and your children (in our case) or them'. We really do believe that's what happened with our ES. He told his brother that he'd told her 'I've given up everything for you'.

I suppose at least we can take some comfort from knowing that once upon a time we were everything.

"2 teens still at home" that takes me back RaisedByWolves, not easy is it.

crazyH Sat 14-Sep-19 23:27:01

Welcome Raisedbywolves. I'm a Gran to 6. Came on here, about 2 years ago, I think (or was it 3 ?) when I was having awful, awful problems with my middle son and his wife. I have put that somewhere in the recesses of my mind...thats why I can't remember exactly when the relationship floundered. The things he said to me 💔 Though I have to say, I was always allowed to visit the babies. They would just leave the room while I played with the little ones. The love and support I received from everyone here saw me through that bad time.
Things are ok now, but I can't say we are 'close'.
Congratulations on becoming a Nanny! I hope you will enjoy the new baby. You obviously have a good relationship with your children. Perhaps one day you will reconcile with your mother, that's if you want to. Good luck !

Namsnanny Sat 14-Sep-19 23:27:07

RaisedByWolves….Hello there, welcome and congrats on becoming a Nanny!
But I'm sorry you find yourself here looking for info on estrangement.smile

Low contact with my mother.
She definitely has some selfish controlling traits.

Example, she 'spiked' my tea or coffee on a regular basis with different strengths of laxative and other drugs (not quite sure what, just know the effects were sudden and powerful) over the last few years, until I caught on (how thick am I?).

Last time I had a drink made by her it was accidentally given to my AC and she literally knocked it out of his hand on to the floor! Cup smashed. We knew then she was doing it on purpose.

Too many things to mention now
Some I remember some old memories I'm not clear on.

Now I've been estranged from one of my AC and GC.

The irony is I've battled to keep the effects of my relationship with my mother away from my children when they were young.

Maybe it hasn't affected them.
Maybe I made my own mistakes with my AC.
Maybe they've made mistakes with me too.

Sometimes its all too exhausting to fathom.

Smileless2012 Sat 14-Sep-19 23:33:07

That's awful Namsnannyshockand despite that you still have some contact with your mother.

As for your AC, we all make mistakes. I think of it as imperfect parents doing their best for their imperfect children.

LostChild Sat 14-Sep-19 23:59:00

I'm working on leaving, but just a warning, this isn't a safe space for estranged children. You will be cross examined for your decision and you have to be extremely careful what you say here. There are other estranged children here who are much tougher than I am that manage fine, and there are also some lovely estranged parents too. Some posters aren't as nice as they pretend though and if you show weakness it will be pounced upon.

Namsnanny Sun 15-Sep-19 00:05:14

Yes Smileless It is awful, to contemplate that someone you love would go so far.

She's been like it all my life. Not with my brother though.
The trouble is I've never quite accepted the truth of her actions.
I've never wanted to give up on the relationship.
I've been told it's a bit like Stockholm syndrome.

I've been struggling the last few days.
Trying to take the estrangement in my stride.

Missing my GC. Dear little ones.

Trying to come to terms with how everything I've said and done has been twisted into something horrible by my AC and partner.

One strange thing is they (AC and partner) accused me of favouring one GC over the others.

Other people told me in confidence how worried they were to see that the parents themselves seemed to favour one.

Is this an example of 'transference' or guilt I wonder?

Namsnanny Sun 15-Sep-19 00:09:57

Lostchild I'm sorry you feel that way.

I hope you can find somewhere that suits you better.

I do disagree with you, but wouldn't want to make you feel any worse than you already do, by debating the point.

Good luckshamrock

BradfordLass72 Sun 15-Sep-19 06:55:26

RaisedbyWolves I'm sorry, it was discourteous of me not to welcome you. You will find many sad stories of estrangement here. I was astonished by just how many people choose that route. sad
Anf congratulations flowers on being a Nanny.

LostChild
I think you may have been on GN long enough to recognise the very few people who will try to bring you down.
They do it all the time, not just on Estrangement threads.

Once you see those names, move on, don't read, don't respond, they don't deserve it and you don't deserve more hurt. poppy stdavids poppy