Narcissistic personality disorder

I agree that the term personality disorder is best avoided, unless it is a formal diagnosis. Maybe the word traits is more useful? Or just describing the behaviour eg self absorbed, black and white thinking, mood swings, etc.

Mebster: I really appreciated your comment about many GPs being sucked in to do too much for their offspring, thank you.

I assumed we were talking about such things in terms of estrangement? Not the general world

Hetty wrote:
"Having been brought up by a mother who really was mentally ill, it's irritating seeing labels casually thrown around. "
Me too.
For me, labels are an excuse for doing nothing.

It's just too easy to blame the other person. I'm sure a lot of estrangements could be avoided if people simply swallowed their pride, apologised and kept their advice and opinions to themselves.

If they focused on how they could help (without expecting payback) and dropped the superior, 'I'm always right' mindset, they might avoid the pain of being shunned.

Having been brought up by a mother who really was mentally ill, it's irritating seeing labels casually thrown around.

The reality is that a child has nowhere to turn and doesn't even know what's normal. We blame ourselves and really believe that we must be very bad.

We automatically love our parents and fret endlessly about not being loved, even liked by them. Some of us are very lucky to have one good parent, though.

Mental health services (all health services), child protection, police, in fact our whole vital support system has been undermined by 'austerity' (a political move, never a necessity) and yet, although we all rely on them, directly or indirectly, for our support, safety, even our lives, many will vote for more of the same.

So we have:

People who abuse their children

People who abuse their children and make them think they deserve it

People who abuse their children and make them think they aren't being abused

People who abuse their children and convince them they are the abusive ones

We just have to try and keep spreading the message. Abuse impacts lives, not just whilst it is happening, but the after affects stretch across the years

Exactly!

This post is so well written. I'm glad to see other great perspecrives that don't blindly follow the group consensus.

Starblaze -- Their default setting is all based on lies. Lies they tell themselves and the lies they tell others. It's their lies that keep their world revolving. If they admit to one lie, then like a house of cards, it all falls inward and onto THEM.

To admit that they miss-fairly perceive their children as 'horrible' to justify/minimize their abuse is just another lie in their world. To admit, "Hannah is not a terrible child/adult/person but I TREAT her terribly." would mean to admit SHE wasn't/isn't a 'good parent'.

So back to the 'belief' becomes reality concept. The belief that they were/are 'good parents' is reality to them and anything that pokes at that 'reality' is an attack on them as a whole being.

So whether it's called 'Narcissistic Abuse', just an abusive personality or anything else, it's the behavior that is the issue.

My eyes are being opened

@Starblaze We just have to try and keep spreading the message. Abuse impacts lives, not just whilst it is happening, but the after affects stretch across the years. An emotionally absent parent causes the same brain chemical changes and damage as being physically abused. Problems in adult life will inevitably be traced back to childhood neglect or/and abuse. Abandonment alone issues will leave a person almost socially disabled when it comes to responding to the world. Childhood sexual abuse/incest/molestation does not happen in a vacuum, either, there will already be inter-generational family dysfunction. Estrangement is not ever a mystery.

ananimous and HolyHannah. There's hope now we have these labels, hopefully one day estrangement will end.

Yes you were right Chewbacca, it's all about them.

Starblaze -- Their default setting is all based on lies. Lies they tell themselves and the lies they tell others. It's their lies that keep their world revolving. If they admit to one lie, then like a house of cards, it all falls inward and onto THEM.

To admit that they miss-fairly perceive their children as 'horrible' to justify/minimize their abuse is just another lie in their world. To admit, "Hannah is not a terrible child/adult/person but I TREAT her terribly." would mean to admit SHE wasn't/isn't a 'good parent'.

So back to the 'belief' becomes reality concept. The belief that they were/are 'good parents' is reality to them and anything that pokes at that 'reality' is an attack on them as a whole being.

So whether it's called 'Narcissistic Abuse', just an abusive personality or anything else, it's the behavior that is the issue.

@Starblaze So true.
I think CPTSD is the root cause of almost all GP estrangement - a bitter seed that bears fruit later on -

And I understand it you know? I understand why people want to keep those doors slammed shut because how painful opening them must be... The pain caused them to slam them on the idea they could have been a bad parent... Because most people want to be good parents. The end result though causes untold damage to the relationship and their child who feels unheard.

That's before we even start on people who were deliberately abusive and just lie to others about it rather than living to themselves.

HolyHannah, I agree. As time goes on, communicating, values and parenting change. Some don't keep up because in order to change certain behaviour you have to see it in yourself.

Just as an example: I smacked my children once or twice when they were little, I quickly realised that was about my anger and if I couldn't regulate my emotions, I couldn't teach them to manage theirs.

How hard must it be though to have routinely smacked your children only to have them tell you later in life that it damaged them? Have them say studies show its damaging. Some people fight that tooth and nail saying "I was smacked as a child and I'm fine". They aren't fine though, they can't control their anger and smacked their own children.

It's just mental gymnastics people use to stop themselves from seeing the truth of their own mistakes. When admitting it was wrong and apologising would resolve the issue... So relationships break down.

It's a lot more complex than that when they are abusive. I first learned of it from my psychiatrist. I am in remission from a personality disorder myself. Borderline. My then personality disorder was directly caused by my mother's abuse. I was lucky, I could have ended up with no empathy and NPD, that's how it runs in families.

Not everyone with NPD is purposefully abusive but they can still damage others around them sadly. 1 in 100 people is a lot too. So everyone is bound to com across them.

You are welcome x

Starblaze -- It would be interesting instead of trying to discredit/dismiss our reality, we could increase understanding.

It's easy to see the behavior I talk about on display widely on the internet. Instead of seeing and changing that behavior, so some don't see it for the toxicity it is, they continue the behavior that is problematic. They treat not only fellow posters but likely their own off-spring as well, in questionable ways and then feel attacked when their behavior is high-lighted to them.

The idea of not doing and saying questionable things doesn't seem to be an option in their play-book.

people being too wrapped up in themselves to see others... NPD as a recognised disorder,

So I was right? It is when someone thinks that everything is about them?

Thanks for the link Starblaze. Very interesting.

The idea of narcissism has been around for a long time, people being too wrapped up in themselves to see others... NPD as a recognised disorder, not as long

www.verywellmind.com/the-history-of-narcissistic-personality-disorder-2795569

I'm really not up to speed with this narccisistic personality disorder thing and don't really understand or know much about it. Is it when someone thinks everything revolves around them?

Or is it more complicated than that? It seems to be a topic that is under discussion more and more these days and I wonder if it's a new thing or whether it's something that has been around for years and has just been given a new name?

OK Madgran x

I only clarify if I think a comment might be connected to my own and there might have been a misunderstanding. I cannot promise not to ask a question if I am interested in something you say Starblaze but will keep in mind your feeling; no desire to make anyone feel uncomfortable.

Perhaps I have missed you doing the same with others commenting near you but it feels rather personal at this point. I know you are probably going to say it isn't personal but that doesn't change how I feel so if it could just stop I'd apprciate it.

Yes it is madgran, I have previously said I have no ill feeling towards you and you can just assume such. I think it would make life a little easier for us both.

Starblaze No I dont have a problem with you. I wasnt aware I had "pulled you up" on anything. I was just clarifying that I wasn't suggesting you were horrible in case you thought I was as you made the comment straight after mine.

Your posts sometimes directly follow mine and I sometimes think they might relate to what I have said and therefore sometimes think there is a misunderstanding! If I do, I prefer to clarify rather than end up in some daft tit for tat argument that seems so prevalent on threads at the moment. It is a shame when threads get derailed, isn't it.