After estrangement?

No estrangement but one of my children lives on the other side of the world. If/when they have kids I don't expect to see them that often so, of course, I won't feel as close to them as those I see very often.

Angry because a poster looking for comfort and support and having the courage to start a thread, was given the impression by you, that they would not be comforted and supported by those of us who are estranged, because she no longer is

You misunderstood my post, Smileless.
I did not suggest or even imply that estranged grandparents would not offer the OP support and comfort.
If you read it again you will see that what I said was that non-estranged grandparents are sometimes made to feel unwelcome on the estranged threads. You of course are welcome to disagree, but this is the perception, that the estranged threads are only for estranged gp’s.

I was offering this as an explanation for the fact that there had been no responses so far on the thread, ie non estranged gps would be wary of venturing onto a thread entitled ‘After Estrangement’.
I did try to be helpful in my response to the OP and I apologise to Boheminan for inadvertently derailing her thread by the perhaps careless use of a word to which you took personal objection.

Smileless, That is the result of the estranging P's behaviour, it is not the fault or the responsibility of the GP perhaps. I suppose it depends on the reasons things went south.

What I can say, is that it’s the grandparents responsibility to treat all children equally.

If they don’t, they may find themselves estranged again for new reasons.

boheminan of course you're not "the heartless ogre" you've been seeing yourself as if you were, you wouldn't have started this thread.

You have sadly experienced the pain of estrangement and as a result are questioning what you think and feel. The harsh reality for you, and for any one of us who may be reconciled in the future, is that you have missed out on so much, and although they are your GC, they are in someways strangers to you, as you are to them.

It's the depth of your love for them that makes you feel the way you do and there's nothing wrong with that, or how you feel so please don't let anyone make you feel that it is wrong.

If a reconciled, previously estranged GP feels they have to try "so hard" because they were denied their GC from birth by the child's estranging parents Summerlove then so be it. That is the result of the estranging P's behaviour, it is not the fault or the responsibility of the GP.

I admire you boheminan for your courage as you attempt to balance your relationship with your D, and walk on the "hot coals" this requires while simultaneously seeking to be the GM to your GC that you want to be.

janeainsworth" my post of 1.11.19 @ 14.03 read "an untrue, unhelpful and unkind comment". I did *not say that you were untrue, unhelpful and unkind and most certainly wasn't hysterical when I posted. Angry yes, but hysterical, no.

Angry because a poster looking for comfort and support and having the courage to start a thread, was given the impression by you, that they would not be comforted and supported by those of us who are estranged, because she no longer is.

MissAdventure, I’d hope you would be correct, but I’ve seen too often that when people make a point to make a distinction, that the child is always treated as “other”.

Good luck bohemian, I wish you well

Apologies for throwing all my toys out of the pram earlier!. Also sorry for lack of response, I've been away a few days for a friends funeral.

So many wise comforting words here. I'm starting to believe I'm not the heartless ogre I've been seeing myself as.

Trying to balance life with daughter is walking on hot coals, but it's this 'emotional distance' between myself and grandchildren I want to come to terms with. I don't believe I can force love to or from them. The years apart have put such a distance between us.

I really just needed a comfort blanket of knowing I'm not the only gran who, for whatever reasons, does not have the close bond I'd like with my grandchildren...

I think, before long. The child will be loved just the same as the others.
Why wouldn't they be, once you get to know them?

Peony, my point was simply you don’t need to know someone as a newborn to have a bond with them.
The third child, met as an older child, will feel left out from grandparents who have connection with the older children, but then have to “try hard” to have a connection with the youngest.

It sounds like a way of punishing the parents through the children. “I adore the two oldest, but have to try so hard with the youngest because you didn’t give me the opportunity to love them as a newborn”. You see?

It happens with step families too. Step grandchildren are loved less because “we haven’t known you since birth”

Bobiminan
Fully understand your concerns.
But think that just loving the wee one and spending time with all the wee ones together will help to deepen your love . It could be that your afraid to love this child incase some day you're cut off again and left broken hearted.
It's a cruel situation to be in and unless you've walked a mile along that road it's difficult to understand the mixed emotions it through up. But folks on here fully understand. I hope you develop a deeper love and remain close to all. Good luck and best wishes to you.

Silly grandma, I didn't start this thread. I did respond though although an 'outsider' .
I do not understand that comment posted by Summerlove about someone trying even harder with a grandchild born whilst estranged. That close bond would not be there if you didn't know he or she existed. I never saw that post, however, who did post it is struggling and is trying her best. They don't need to be guilt tripped saying poor third child. I as an outsider have not felt excluded. There are always people who will find fault and pick at things, most however are kind and supportive, anyone estranged, for whatever reason, is on here because they need help.

Smileless is an estranged gparent.

Pantglas Hysterical seems a very strange term to use on this thread, either for estranging adult children or estranged grandparents
What are you talking about?
I was describing Smileless’s response to my comment. She described me as unkind, untruthful and unhelpful and inserted the ‘angry’ emoticon. I thought it was a bit over the top.
I wasn’t talking about adult children or grandparents.

Boheminan ... I apologise for not responding before!
I’ve been waiting with baited breath for an answer onky to be left hanging!!
To respond to your problem, honestly I don’t know, but if I were in your position I would tell the child/children how much I’ve missed and loved them every time I saw them. Then got on with finding out what they liked to do and do it with them.
What ever happens in the future you can encourage the relationship to grow organically between you.
Relax and enjoy
Best of luck

Sorry, I meant @Summerlove. What pretty names on this cold, blustery, winter day.

@rosecarmal - The term 'groupthink' was coined by the American, Irving Janis, from the 'doublespeak' in Orwell's dystopian novel, '1984'. It does not have positive connotations and I am struggling to understand its context in your post.

Firstly Summerlove I assumed (possibly wrongly) that rosecarmel was American.

Secondly, the term was used in connection with the bombing of Pearl Harbour, the American naval base, by the Japanese.

My first instinct is always to be kind Summerlove which is why I defended someone who always does likewise on these threads.

Also, just to make things clear, I was asking for an explanation rather than to apportion blame to a whole nation. I’m sure rosecarmel will kindly explain when she has time.

pantglas2
“Groupthink” actually comes from George Orwell’s 1984. An English author. Not everything you don’t understand or think is wrong is American. Maybe you should consider why your first instinct is to blame Americans

Boheminan, I am in a similar position to you in that I have recently reconciled with my DD after a semi-estrangement of nearly three years. I say semi-estrangement because she always sent cards for birthdays etc but, other than that, ghosted the whole family entirely for 6 months, moved without telling us her address for 18 months, and gave birth to a child whom she only told us of a couple of months ago. The child is now 16 months old. The situation is just so bizarre that I can't get my head round it, so I completely understand the feeling of disconnection.

I am not sure that I have any solutions other than to work at it and try to connect as much as possible. My DD and DGD live over 300 miles away so I tell myself that I wouldn't have seen that much of her anyway, that it's not as though she has emigrated to say Australia, and that at least I can now have the opportunity to build a relationship. And, you know, even if you don't have a close connection now, you may well do in the future, when the little child of today becomes an independent adult and chooses who is in her life.

I have written extensively about my situation and feelings on the thread 'Support for all those living with Estrangement', started by the wonderfully wise and compassionate Smileless, so you might find it helpful to pop in there, if you haven't already.

The only other thing I would say is that GN can be quite slow moving sometimes and, compared to MN, it can be at a snail's pace, so don't be discouraged if you don't receive instant replies. It is worth waiting for the responses, which will come, and are, with few exceptions, extremely helpful and supportive.

I’m sorry rosecarmel, you’ll have to explain ‘groupthink’ to me - is it an American term? And I don’t understand why being described as being calm and courteous is a bad thing but applying the word hysterical (to Smileless2012 of all people?) is helpful on a thread like this.

As for being self centred, atop a pedestal...... I think maybe you need to re-read all my posts (and Pantglas1) to get a clearer picture of me. I’m a lot of things, not all of them good, but the people who know me wouldn’t apply those words to me!

This means that I have to try harder with the third child as we don't have that "connection" that was formed in the early years with the first two.
Poor third child, knowing that you have to try hard to have a connection. Because that child will know they are least favoured.

Pantglas2, I'm certain that courteous doesn't mean groupthink- The tone of that last post was self-centered, as though one were speaking from atop a pedestal instead of to equals-

boheminan, it isn't unusual to experience feeling distant or disconnected as a result of a hurtful circumstance and even fearful of being vulnerable as well in an effort to protect yourself- And maybe the feeling of no connection is an indication that you've yet to heal so need more time to do so before you open your heart again-

Boheminian, you don't have to be fully estranged, to feel that 'disconnect'. A couple of years ago, I almost was estranged, from my older son and his family, but because I persisted (for the sake of the GC), I do see them now and then.
BUT .....yesterday, it was hurtingly obvious where I stand in the pecking order. I, along with d.i.l's mother was invited to the Halloween party. D.i.l's mother picked me up, which was nice of her, and we both went to the party. As we got off the car, the little ones rushed to her, squealing with excitement, ignoring me totally. I managed to get a hug eventually. It hurt, but I have to accept it. They see more of her than me. What did I expect?
I am just glad the little ones have lots love around them. I hope you enjoy your grandchildren and build a great relationship.

Back to the OP. I am not estranged apart from long distance, but I sense from what you say is that you have been so hurt that you cannot just have an instant bonded relationship with these DC. How could you.
Try to remember, it is not their fault and nothing can be done to make good the past.
Take it very gently. Look after yourself. I hope you get to know and like eachother.

Hysterical seems a very strange term to use on this thread, either for estranging adult children or estranged grandparents and certainly I’ve only ever found Smileless2012 to be calm and courteous to all regardless of which ‘side’ is posting.