A Breakdown of Family Estrangement

The sadest was 90% of all respondents finding Christmas hard Madgran.

Yes that's true but there are situations where no indication was given that the estranger was struggling with the relationship to the extent that estrangement was even on the cards.

For many, the estrangement quite literally came out of the blue and it's perfectly reasonable IMO that if that's what EP's say was the case for them, it should be accepted.

After all, we accept what we're told here by EAC so the same degree of acceptance should be given to parents who have been estranged.

That's to be expected though isn't it; Christmas stirs up so many memories of how things used to be for EP's and how they should have been for adults whose memories of Christmas are ones of sadness.

Christmas, Birthdays and other "family anniversaries" will always be extra hard in any estrangement that someone is going through. But to be honest when I see the statistics the things that strikes me above everything else is that estrangement is hard for everyone involved.

well I'm not sure about that I'm sorry to say Madgran

I think so Madgran, I have no doubt anyone estranging anyone feels wronged on some level... Whether they are right to I couldn't say, I can only speak for myself

In my experience, the first few family anniversaries were difficult but then, a "new normal" evolves over time and it becomes much easier as time goes on. But I respect that I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum from many of you here and I appreciate that this may well not be the case for you.

notanan2 -- You have summed it up perfectly.

As soon as I started to touch at the smallest thing that bothered me, it was like I had told my 'mom' that the sky was falling. I can't begin to think how it would have gone had I tried with a bigger issue but Chernobyl comes to mind.

I once read an EP say something along the lines of, "Well, there were little signs that my child was unhappy but who would have thought that would lead to estrangement?" Ignoring signs/rug sweeping is a common theme.

I've heard others say, "I'd happily go to therapy with them." The thing is, usually by the time No Contact has been decided on as the best course of action, the AC is no longer interested in trying to 'fix' the situation. We've been through therapy and the work. We don't want to hold our parent(s) hand through them getting the help they clearly need when NO ONE was there to support US.

IF an EC does go to counselling with the parent(s) the result is universally the same. EC say that nothing of what the therapist was saying "got through" to the parent and No Contact followed. And the parent(s) claims all the AC did was 'lie' and the therapist wasn't 'good' because he/she didn't see through the AC's 'lies'/did not agree with the parent(s) version/side of things.

So are you saying that joint counselling isn't worth considering HolyHannah because its doomed to fail?

So are you saying that joint counselling isn't worth considering HolyHannah because its doomed to fail?

By the time someone has decided their life will be better with you out of it than in it, no, there is no point to councelling. For it to work it would have needed to happen sooner than breaking point. By NC you are past that.

Chewbacca -- Of all the reading I have done I have yet to hear a success story from 'either side' on joint counselling.

The way I feel is joint counselling will only work when both sides understand there is a problem in the relationship.

My 'mom' does not feel there is a problem in the relationship, therefore to her, the only problem is ME. It's my mental issues, it's me being 'too sensitive' or it's just me 'misinterpreting' what she is saying/doing.

IF she got help on her own and could see that she is 50% of the relationship issue(s) then maybe I would try. Right now, all she would want from joint therapy is to have the therapist agree with her and tell me how 'wrong' I am about everything... As usual.

Hmmm, maybe so notanan; but for quite a while after I went NC with my family, I did wonder if it was salvageable and whether counselling might have helped. Many years ago now so water under the bridge!

Before NC my NM told me she was going to counselling because of me. I offered joint counselling and even knowing the relationship was ending she laughed in my face and said no. I can't ever imagine doing that to my child.

Notanan

You are quite right, by the time the decision is made to cut yourself off , there is no going back. In my own case I would never ever consider any counselling, even if she wanted it, which I’m sure she wouldn’t.

Well we just don't know do we. Feeling wronged on some level; we all from time to time feel wronged on some level but not everyone resorts to estrangement.

I agree Chewbacca the first few Christmas', birthdays etc were awful, really awful but over time yes, it has become 'a new norm' for us too. It's still painful of course, but nothing as bad as it used to be.

Joint counselling like anything else is doomed to fail unless all involved are wanting it to succeed. I don't think anyone here can claim for example that the result for EAC agreeing to counselling with their parent(s) has the universally same result, and that result is due to the parents they've estranged.

A failed result can also be because the EAC claims the parents lied and the therapist wasn't any good because they didn't see through the parents' lies etc.

Each case is individual and generalisations aren't helpful especially if they pit one 'side' against the other.

It can’t work, even if no one is consciously lying, their versions of certain events will always be different. No good can come from it.

There are cases where the person who decides to go No Contact is the Parent, not the Adult Child.

I agree HolyHannah that by the time that decision is made the person making the decision may well have decided that it is unfixable. It is clear from this forum that having made that decision sadly many people who have made the decision to go No Contact continue to suffer and to feel pain; some have said they continue to hope. And that many people who have had someone walk away and go No Contact with them, also continue to suffer great pain; to continue to hope. In some cases people who made the NC decision or those it has been done to, find a way to get some sort of acceptance etc for themselves but it seems clear that the pain does not go away. All that is reflected in the links too.

The links posted highlight some common themes and those are often reflected on GN discussion threads, although not always.

I'm not convinced that if the 2 estranged people do go to counselling the result is "universally" the same though. I know of one mother and son who did got to counselling, were resolutely honest with each other, went through some difficult discussions and were reconciled. That was five years ago, and they have determinedly ensured that if a problem arises, if one is displaying previously problematical behaviour they speak about it, explain, talk and get themselves "safe" again. It worked for them because they were both willing to try (the son had gone NC with his mother). I expect it works for some others as well.

I think thats true Smileless; both parties attending the counselling would, in all probability, be looking from opposite ends of the telescope and searching for different answere/resolutions. It's so long ago for me now that it's hard for me to remember the details. The only clear, and distinct memory that I have was pure, unadulterated relief and calmness and lasts to this day.

Sorry Madgran, I've replicated part of your post 're the counselling!

It's good to know that you are at peace with the decision you made Chewbacca

There are cases where the person who decides to go No Contact is the Parent, not the Adult Child.

Of course there are. But it's only shocking/surprising/newsworthy ig its the female parent who does it..

Thanksm Madgran and Summerlove! Haven't read the whole article yet but already found much of it to reflect what I've seen and heard.

notanan2 -- I read this and it shows the attitude I'm talking about.

"Husband and I received weekly counseling with our daughter for five months. I can't say it was of much benefit. Daughter outright lied and played a lot of games with us. Can't say the counselor was very professional, either. However, daughter still wants to pursue counseling, so on the advice of a psychologist friend, we are about to start with a counselor who is trained in Family Systems Theory (otherwise known as Bowenian Theory). We are hoping this will make a difference, but I am not counting on it, because I don't think our daughter wants to do the work necessary to improve her relationship with us. I think if all parties really want to be truthful and sincere in the therapy and the therapist is a good one, then counseling will be of benefit. If not, it is likely to be useless."

The part in the middle about, "I don't think our daughter wants to do the work necessary to improve her relationship with us." It's all up to the daughter to "do the work to improve the relationship" but 'mom' doesn't say she might need to do some work as well.

So long as 'mom' clings to, "Daughter outright lied" there is no point. I sure hope that daughter finds real help that will encourage her to realize that her truth is her's and is her reality regardless of 'mom' gas-lighting her.

Not quite off topinc as the question was asked.

Just going back a wee bit to links which don't always work. There are several reasons for this but one thing you can always try is go back to the root.

As the original link didn't work I went to https://www.verywellfamily.com

where there was a search facility.

All links begin with a root like this which gives you a starting point..

The point about "family circles" caught my attention. Very interesting and, IMO, very true.