Just wanted to let you all know!

Oh, I'm a bit (lot?) of a grammar and spelling stickler too Smileless ?

oops that should have been 'aren't there for them' not their.

Chewbacca

That's interesting Noregrets you say "affected" and I was thinking of infected.

It hasn't outlived it's usefulness, we need threads like this, that show how important it is in some cases for GP's not to give up, to be there for their GC because tragically their parents aren't their for them, the way they should be.

Make sure you stick around because we're sticking around too.

Thanks Smileless, Chewbacca, Madgran et al. ?

Oh I was waiting for you to appear. The term Daddy's spy comes from the children themselves. They still have a strong attachment to each other, despite efforts to divide them. I share your positive view about social care involvement.

But this thread has been negatively affected by a few individuals, so I suggest it has outlived it's usefulness. I'm still going to be sticking around though, because I value the input of some very special people. You know who you are! ?

Well that won't sit right Smileless!

Couldn't agree with you more Chewbacca and Madgran. Had the previous thread that Noregrets had previously posted on not been deleted then there would have been no need for her to start a new one.

For me there is nothing troubling with what you have done Noregrets in order to try and safeguard the safety and well being of your GC.

It's good that you are going to be issued with a certificate that allows you to apply to the courts for contact and lasts for 4 months.

Too often we hear of cases where social services have let down the vulnerable and at risk; thank goodness that isn't the case here.

I'm not surprised that for you "none of this sits right" OutsideDave. It doesn't fit your agenda that all EGP's are selfish, thinking only of themselves and putting their needs before the welfare of their GC.

Social services are keeping an eye on things due to the courageous and selfless act of the children's GM who was prepared to sacrifice her contact with them, in order to ensure their safety and well being.

Agree fully with HH. None of this sits right. All the talk of their ‘special relationship’ and referring to a grandchild as daddy’s little spy. I hope the grandkids are ok, and that their sibling relationship is healthy. I don’t know that anyone involved is doing anything to benefit the children so I just hope social services is going to keep an eye on things.

Agree madgran and Chewbacca. I’m fairly new to posting on these threads although I have been reading them for a few years and getting comfort from the sensible posters as well.

It’s such a great pity that some threads have been deleted and therefore new folks can’t follow the story?

My observations have been that it’s one or two unreasonable posters that seem to be responsible.

My question is why can’t GN deal directly with these people and leave the thread running.?

It is very unfortunate that, when Noregrets had explained clearly the issues regarding her situation on her first thread, that thread eventually had to be deleted because of inappropriate posting.

She then, instead of being able to just update on her original thread which gave all aspects of her situation, she had to start a new thread to update and to ask for further advice. This means that not all the information she was originally willing to share on her situation is available for other posters to see, to give context to her later comments and discussions. Understandably she does not want to keep repeating herself and re-explaining, and if the original thread remained then there would no need for her to do that.

I think this really does demonstrate the importance of posts not having to be deleted, and the importance of posters considering how they post, how they avoid derailing threads...for the good of everyone who wants to use GN as a useful resource! I think it is a great shame how many posts have had to be deleted recently by GN. I really hope the problem stops soon.

You've explained yourself, and your situation, so many times Noregrets; if people are still struggling to get their heads around it, I'd just leave them to it if I was you. You owe no one an explanation; you've explained in great detail and left little room for misunderstandings. Sometimes there's just no point in trying any further.

Noregrets -- "And just to clarify for anyone interested, the reason I have focussed more on one particular child is that she was the one who disclosed to me and the only one scapegoated by her daddy, being emotionally and physically abused by him."

What am I not understanding in that statement? You SAY you are concerned more "on one particular child" and then you say she is "the only one scapegoated".

You seem concerned about my ability to perceive and say, "I question your ability to ask informed questions." I am basing my inquiries on YOUR WORDS.

"I reported concerns about all the children, even though only one felt able to disclose. Even the oldest child was being harmed by being allowed to bully/abuse his younger siblings." This is why I said you need to focus on them ALL.

Showing that you love and support them ALL regardless of their trained behavior from the abusive environment, YOU will be a voice of calm and reason in their world. In abusive environments the children are being pitted against each other, you should be working to bring them together so they can hopefully support each other.

You said, "her experience was worse." No it is/was not. Abuse is ABUSE. The fact that you believe in degrees of abuse is troubling.

And only one of the children was being emotionally and physically abused by their father. As I have stated several times. It was not a question of favouritism, her experience was worse.

Holy Hannah.I will answer this one more time. All the 3 younger children were being abused by their older brother and not protected by their parents. I have already posted about how the little boy was being recruited as a "spy" by his father and how detrimental that was to him, and especially his otherwise close relationship with his sister. And how close he was to me.
I reported concerns about all the children, even though only one felt able to disclose. Even the oldest child was being harmed by being allowed to bully/abuse his younger siblings.
If you aren't even sure how many GC I am concerned about, I question your ability to ask informed questions. Maybe you are over identifying with what you perceive as echoes of your own experience?

Noregrets -- If the children are growing up in the environment you describe then I truly suggest you reevaluate how you are handling the situation.

Your assertion that your main concern is for ONE of the grands is problematic. IF they are growing up in an abusive environment ALL the children are being abused. The abuse is just different between the children.

By showing particular concern for the GD and calling the GS 'a spy', you are now modeling the same behavior the kids are seeing at home only in reverse. This is not helpful to the children or the situation.

You need to show BOTH/ALL (I don't recall if there are more then 2 children involved) that they are loved and supported. It's easy to slip into the idea that one child needs 'more help' and as a child of an abusive environment, I would have welcomed "special attention/care" from anyone.

However, as an adult who has gone through recovery, I can see now that all that does is perpetuate the systematic abuse of a dysfunctional family.

MovingOn's delivery may be direct, but the points on putting ALL the children first is certainly true. If someone isn't contributing to a solution, they are adding to the issues and not helping anyone.

New development. I had almost decided that this offer of contact was only because of social work involvement and it wouldn't last. I also have made some headway towards feeling comfortable with what to say to the children, more later, as I just had a phone call from the mediation service. And now it seems that perhaps their contact with SIL and youngest daughter may have led to the offer of contact.
The service rang to say that SIL had said no to mediation as it wasn't necessary. So ........
But just in case it's helpful to someone else, the service are now going to issue me with the certificate which allows application to the court for contact. And it lasts 4 months.
Hopefully I won't need it!
And just to clarify for anyone interested, the reason I have focussed more on one particular child is that she was the one who disclosed to me and the only one scapegoated by her daddy, being emotionally and physically abused by him.

Having a different point of view is of course fine welbeck as long as it's given politely and in a case like this, with a degree of sensitivity.

'Half the writing has disappeared' because the unpleasant and offensive posts were reported and deleted.

i don't understand.
what does the poster who thinks this granny is at fault, what is she doing wrong.
maybe I don't know the whole back story, but it's like trying to read old letters where half the writing has disappeared.
long time since I had to do textual criticism and wasn't good at it then. give us a clue, what are you talking about.

With respect NatashaGranset there is only one poster who is once again being insensitive here.

I can see nothing in the situation that you have described Noregrets or the information that you chosen to share, that suggests that you think you are the most important thing in your AC family. Not do I see anything that suggest that you are trying to sever any relationship that doesn't go through you!

Wonderful news and thanks for sharing. I think all you need to do at this point is be gentle, keep communication open so that your gd will talk to you and be inclusive with your kindness and concern to the whole family but keep a watchful eye. I wouldn't bring up the subject yet, just wait and see how she is.

MovingOn, I don't want to appear a bully or disrecptpful to you but you do seem to have a problem, you are NOT the expert in all this. Social Services are involved and will guide
the family and give advice. We are here just to express support and opinions in all this. Maybe you could make your posts just a bit less angry.

"I feel I need to let IJ know how she could protect herself in the future, without him knowing.... How do I let IJ know without putting him in a difficult position."

Such a tricky situation, Noregrets. Bless you for weighing your choices carefully. I know there are no easy decisions here.

I agree w/ Smileless that it's better to wait till IJ raises the subject (if she does). But either way, if you do give her some advice, perhaps only if GS is otherwise occupied? In other words, could you arrange to have some time alone w/ IJ while DH does something separately w/ the other two GC? Since you seem to have beneficial info for her about protecting herself, it might be worth doing this. Will this info also help protect the other two kids?

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