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Estrangement

Just wanted to let you all know!

(102 Posts)
Noregrets Thu 12-Dec-19 13:11:59

My DH just phoned. He is at the supermarket, and received a text from my SIL. Can we pick up the GC and from school on Monday and have them for tea!
I am dumbstruck

FlyingFree Mon 16-Dec-19 00:36:40

Triplets! Wow! It must be awful for them to have their parents treat them so differently. Hope you have a lovely visit with them 🙂 Careful what you say, children repeat everything. Mine had an abusive nan so it was usually lots of questions about why nanny said xyz. I don't think little children really understand they have abusive parents they just end up thinking it's all their fault. So sad x

Smileless2012 Sun 15-Dec-19 13:23:38

There do already seem to be some positive changes for Noregrets' GC Starlady which is very good news indeed. Going to their GP's for tea tomorrow having been prevented from seeing them for a while.

Your GM sounds like she provided precisely what you needed endlessstrifesmile. It sounds as if was a safety net for you just as Noregrets is being for GC.

Noregrets and Chewbaccasmile. Being abused in your childhood is not an easy thing to overcome but it is possible. I rarely think of my own childhood experience. Occasionally it's triggered by something I read, hear or see but in general it isn't something I think about.

endlessstrife Sun 15-Dec-19 11:08:11

Awww, no it’s fine Noregrets, it’s more a reflection of our surname! I do remember things were better after I spoke to my granny, who I absolutely loved. I think as I got older, I could see more, why my dad acted like he did. He mellowed and my mum became more difficult. Since he died, I haven’t seen her. I’ve been very happy with my husband and children, and now grandchildren. It sounds like you did all the right things. We can only do what’s right at the time. That adage came from my dad!

Noregrets Sun 15-Dec-19 05:46:25

Starlady 😘

Starlady Sat 14-Dec-19 19:53:53

I can barely get my mind around the idea of a parent getting some of his children to attack another. So horrendous!

I am sorry to hear you were a victim of child abuse, yourself, Noregrets. But perhaps your experience is what has given you the courage to stand up for your grands.

My heart goes out, also, to the others here who were victims of abuse as children. It must take so much inner strength to get past that and become the caring adults/parents/GPs you all seem to be. It's no surprise to me that you have different perspectives on what should be done for abused kids, based on your own experiences, etc. But I'm sure you all want whatever is best for such children.

For Noregret's GC, it seems that her choices have made a positive difference. I hope I'm right about that, and if so, I hope it lasts.

Noregrets Sat 14-Dec-19 19:32:49

Endless strife, thank you. Hope life is better for you now, but your name suggests otherwise. Hope that's not the case 🙏

endlessstrife Sat 14-Dec-19 19:27:58

I don’t really know what’s been going on here, but it sounds like you’ve been like my granny was once to me. When I was 12, I confided in her, that my dad was verbally abusive and threatening to my mum ( her daughter). I remember being worried that I may get into trouble, but she said to leave it with her. The problem went away, and nothing was ever said to me. GP’s can be a good safety net sometimes.

Chewbacca Sat 14-Dec-19 18:44:40

Well said Noregrets. Very well put.

Noregrets Sat 14-Dec-19 17:34:17

Whatever you say is water off a duck's back to me. You are impelled by your own prejudices. Which counts for nothing as far as I am concerned. You do not have a monopoly on the truth, and certainly not on the perspective of people who experienced childhood abuse and overcame it.

Starblaze Sat 14-Dec-19 16:57:57

Hiding the post now. Truly disgusted

Starblaze Sat 14-Dec-19 16:56:47

I don't know that you are actually reading what I am saying. Yes I have left my abuse behind, but it did not end till 4 years ago. However, I can learn from my experience and use it to educate/help others. Help other children and their relatives in order to best protect children. Children being my main concern as that is who I am in the home and at work.

Also telling someone they should "leave your childhood behind" as if moving on from damaging experiences has some sort of timescale, is both invalidating and a disgusting thing to say. I hope you wouldn't ever dream of saying that to your grandchildren if they came to you in later life and said that they were struggling to overcome aspects of their upbringing. Childhood abuse leaves a legacy, it literally changes the brain. It's not a case of just getting over it, it is a literal fight against anxiety, depression and cptsd that can be lifelong.

As a social worker you should know all this. I am however struggling to believe you were a good one. Frankly after what you just said I have lost all respect for you as a social worker or a person.

Best of luck to your grandchildren in the future.

Noregrets Sat 14-Dec-19 16:56:18

Chewbacca 💕

Chewbacca Sat 14-Dec-19 16:50:35

I was an abused child too, and I did.

Me too *Noregrets and so did I.

Noregrets Sat 14-Dec-19 16:46:22

My SIL was an abused child. That does not excuse him becoming an abuser himself. You really do need to leave your childhood behind. I was an abused child too, and I did.

Starblaze Sat 14-Dec-19 16:09:16

It's not really NoRegrets, it's AC who WERE abused themselves who know the mistakes that were made by those around them which really didn't help their situation at home. Worth listening too really. It does seem whether it is sugar coated or not you are determined to do things your way anyway.

Noregrets Sat 14-Dec-19 15:58:20

Thanks Starlady

Yes, the information about the little boy's role, as outlined by his Daddy, came from the children.
I have always believed that all 4 children are being abused in different ways.

But only one was vilified by her Daddy. He seemed determined to destroy her self esteem for some reason. Constant unfair criticism, blaming her unfairly for minor infringements, whilst her siblings were not even criticised for their own similar actions, etc.

And her two same age siblings were undoubtedly harmed by being commanded to physically attack her, but how alone she must have felt in that situation. It was heartbreaking to see her break down, wailing that her Daddy wouldn't really care if she died.

The siblings had always been so close, it's a vile thing to do to them all. To see her looking so broken, and yet so frightened her siblings would hear her distress, and report back to Daddy that she had broken down in front of me, was devastating.

And then their Mummy didn't take any action to protect them, when I let her know. And yet she knew similar stuff had happened two years previously, when she had acted to protect them.

Most posters have understood how terrible the whole experience was, for me too. I have no regrets about reporting the situation to children's services. And I cannot avoid people with an axe to grind criticising me here. Many of them are projecting their own feelings onto my grandchildren's experience.

We can only do the right thing as we see it, at any given time. And I would not hesitate to do the same again.

Starlady Sat 14-Dec-19 13:45:31

Thanks for the update, Noregrets! I may be wrong, but I have a feeling you're right about the mediation call prompting the parents to initiate some contact. If they said yes to mediation, they might end up having to stick to an agreement about how often to let you see the GC. Or they would refuse to compromise and the case would end up in court. This way, they still retain some control over how much you see the kids, so that may make them feel better. And as long as they allow some visiting, I guess, they feel you can't make a visitation case. But, no matter, b/c you're getting to see the kids and keep an eye on things, so that's good.

Of course, you're right, they could end the contact at some point for whatever reason (or no reason). So I'm glad you got that certificate. Like you, I hope you don't have to use it.

I agree that all the children are hurt by this situation, no matter what role they play (scapegoat, Golden Child, or whatever). Fortunately, I've never been in an abusive situation, so I might not know whereof I speak, but I understand your feeling that one child may have it "worse" than the others. For example, if all the kids in a family were beaten every day, it would be harmful to them all, physically, mentally, and emotionally. But if one were also called cruel names while they were beaten, their experience might be "worse" in that sense. Or, oh, IDK, if one were frequently locked in a closet or maybe in a basement that, say, was full of cockroaches or rats (I'm making this up and probably not doing a very good job of it), they would probably have worse memories than the others, even nightmares, etc. So yes, they would have gone through a "worse" experience than the others, even though they are all hurt by just being in that atmosphere.

I admit, I'm not sure why you see IJ as a scapegoat and not the others who have been abused. But perhaps she tends to get blamed for things more than the others? Or??

As for the little guy, I'm sure you don't call him a "spy" to his face and are just saying that to us. It's sad that his siblings see him as that though. Does he see himself that way? How awful that the parents pit the kids against each other. No doubt, that's part of the abuse, as I think another poster indicated. Divide and conquer and control (sigh).

Regardless, you're the one who had the courage to step forward and report the abuse. And now SS is involved, and I trust, all the children will benefit. I wish you and those kids all the best!

Starblaze Sat 14-Dec-19 12:58:25

I really don't think it's a good idea regardless. You have the opportunity to see them and will risk it for the future.

Smileless2012 Sat 14-Dec-19 09:00:51

I see what you mean Noregrets and it will be good to acknowledge that it's been difficult for everyone including their mum and dad.

I did think to be begin with that you should take your lead from the children; see if they say anything but on reflection I think you're right.

You must be so excited about seeing them on Mondaytchsmile.

Noregrets Sat 14-Dec-19 07:58:01

Thanks for that Smileless! I have never for one minute thought about questioning the children, but I have reflected upon what I might say to them.
It doesn't feel right to say nothing to them about what has been such a difficult time for everyone. So I'm just going to acknowledge that it has been, including for their Mum and Dad, and not much more, except to mention something about bravery etc. Still thinking about the details, but it is gradually taking shape.

Smileless2012 Fri 13-Dec-19 23:19:50

Noregrets has said nothing about questioning her GD.

Starblaze Fri 13-Dec-19 22:40:20

I'm surprised you were thinking of getting her alone to question her NoRegrets, you must know asking leading questions invalidates evidence. Just keep a journal of things that crop up or something? Enjoy time with them. Like you said, children need a positive loving role model. Why would you risk them losing that again when SS and all organisations they are connected too (school, doctor, hospital etc for people who don't know) would be keeping a close eye any way.

Smileless2012 Fri 13-Dec-19 22:24:40

Oh that's great. Mr. S. and DS call me 'hang them high judge .....' !

Noregrets Fri 13-Dec-19 22:14:53

When I was a manager, and had to approve court reports, the team called me (?fondly?) Attilla the Pen!

Smileless2012 Fri 13-Dec-19 21:57:29

I used to drive our boys mad with both written and spoken Noregrets; still do with DS. Now days he just pats me on the head when I correct himtchhmm.