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Estrangement

Dealing with estrangement - Q&A

(114 Posts)
CariGransnet (GNHQ) Wed 12-Feb-20 11:51:29

Are you feeling isolated and alone, due to being estranged/alienated from your grandchild? How do you cope with estrangement? Where can you go for support?

Jane Jackson is the founder of the Bristol Grandparents Support Group, which focuses on the rights of grandchildren to see their grandparents. She set up the group after losing contact with her grandchild when her son separated from his wife in 2007. At her first meeting six grandparents arrived at her home. To date she has been contacted by over 7,000 grandparents and there are now 13 groups across the UK.

Jane was reunited with her granddaughter in 2018.

She will be answering your questions on estrangement - leave yours on this thread before Weds 26 Feb. We will post the answers here too.

muffin Sat 15-Feb-20 15:30:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Smileless2012 Sat 15-Feb-20 17:05:12

Thank you Starladysmile

Norah Sat 15-Feb-20 17:56:23

Smileless the moving house was brilliant. And maybe cathartic?

Smileless2012 Sat 15-Feb-20 21:52:34

It was definitely the best thing we could have done Norah and yes it was cathartic.

The first week in our new home I kept dissolving into tears and in the end Mr. S. asked me if I was regretting our move. I told him they were tears of relief and after 4 years I felt safe enough to let it go.

PetitFromage Sun 16-Feb-20 08:57:30

Another big thumbs up for Smileless and a huge thank you for all of the time, patience and kindness which she finds for us all.

muffin, my heart goes out to you. Your situation sounds very similar to mine. We were a close, loving family until DD1 met her now DH, from whom we gradually became estranged. We have seen her once in the last three years. She ghosted us for 6 months, moved without giving us her address, got married without telling us, and gave birth to our first DGD, but did not tell us until DGD was 14 months old (and only after we had agreed to give them a loan to buy a second property to let out).

DGD2 was born on Christmas Eve, whom we also haven't met yet. We are due to visit in March, but my DH has just been diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer, so I suspect and hope that he will be having his treatment then, so we will not go. I seriously wonder if he will ever meet his DGDs and it is hard not to feel bitter, although I am not generally a bitter person.

I suppose it's a positive, but DD1 has been in virtually daily contact since last summer, sent lots of photos and videos of the DGDs, is clearly devastated by the news about DH. And I know that I need to move forward, for DH's sake - who is much more forgiving than I am - as well as my own, I just don't have the headspace for negative feelings.

I totally agree that it is about 'power' and the reason I don't like SIL and fell out with him is that he is controlling. DD1 didn't just estrange her family, but all of her friends as well. Neither she nor SIL are working at present, so they are together 24/7 and they don't see anyone else other than his parents. They think that they are doing us a huge favour to have any access to 'their' family.

Sorry to be negative - if DH can recover and we have even a few more years together, I almost don't care. My perspective has altered. DD1 has her own life to live, with all its ups and downs, and I wish her well. I still love her but I have been hurt too much and, like Smileless, I think it might be better not to meet the DGDs, as then there is a vulnerability. Now I just see pictures of sweet children but, frankly, they could be anybody's. I have no connection to them.

Chewbacca Sun 16-Feb-20 10:08:39

flowers for you petitfromage.

muffin Sun 16-Feb-20 12:51:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Starlady Sun 16-Feb-20 13:27:59

Always sad to read about the pain that some of you are going through.

Whywhywhy, sorry about ED, but TG for your XSIL!

Muffin, sorry your DH is ill. Please be sure you take care of yourself as well as him. I can't get over your ED pushing you away b/c you asked her to come see her ill dad! Either this was part of a pattern of disagreements or her partner is very controlling and has influenced her to stay away. Either way, I'm so sorry. TG for your other DD!

PF, I hope you take care of yourself, as I said to muffin. I totally get your focusing on your relationship w/ your DH now. You two will be in my prayers.

As for DD1, I'm glad she's keeping in touch now. It seems her attitude has softened or perhaps SIL has become less controlling (or she is standing up to him more). I'm sorry that your visit in March may have to be cancelled. But I hope DH gets well and that you both meet your two DGDs eventually.

Yennifer Sun 16-Feb-20 13:41:47

I don't want to comment too much on this thread and upset anyone but I was wanting to say that my heart goes out to everyone x

Smileless2012 Sun 16-Feb-20 14:39:39

muffinflowers

PetitFromage Mon 17-Feb-20 09:38:36

muffin flowers

Thanks Starlady, much appreciated.

Wishing everyone a good week.

Yogagirl Mon 17-Feb-20 10:17:33

Muffin flowers

Yogagirl Mon 17-Feb-20 10:21:14

Yennifer Title of thread; Are you feeling isolated and alone, due to being estranged/alienated from your grandchild?
So why did you cut your children off from their grandparents & family if you think it's not right to do so?

Yogagirl Mon 17-Feb-20 10:26:52

My estD was brainwashed by her jealous husband, so my question is; will she, my D, ever think for herself and remember how close & loving we all were. Also will she every see the damaged she has done to her daughter, my beloved granddaughter, that has had all her birth family that loved & adored her & that she loved & adored back, ripped away from her & also had her named taken from her, as she was named after me, taken by her stepdad due to his jealousy.

Yennifer Mon 17-Feb-20 11:07:40

Yogagirl there isn't a magic that happens to make abusive parents good grandparents. Having been alienated from my own family by an abusive parent I understand both sides of the issue x

Yogagirl Mon 17-Feb-20 11:10:30

Sorry Yennifer I came back on to say no need to answer above question as you already said on the other thread; Carrots

Riverdance888 Wed 19-Feb-20 10:21:58

Hello everyone. I live in small flat that only has windows to the front. It means that when I cook, smells are often trapped. Can you give me any tips on what to do please. Many thanks.

Notsooldat75 Wed 19-Feb-20 10:24:53

I have been estranged from two adult grandchildren for over a year. I did something stupid, and have apologised for it. I can do no more.
Silence ever since.
I’ve now reached the point when I no longer worry. Life is a lot more peaceful, no drama, I have the company of good friends and family, and was very wisely advised to try and stop beating myself up over it, as they clearly don’t care, so the only person affected was me.
It takes a while to ‘get there’, but it is a huge load lifted.

Smileless2012 Wed 19-Feb-20 12:21:44

It's good that you've reached a place where you have found peace Notsooldat and that you are no longer beating yourself up over something that you have no control.

"It takes a while to 'get there', but it is a huge load lifted" I totally agreesmile.

Funnygran Wed 19-Feb-20 15:27:40

My son will be in court in three weeks time hoping for an interim contact order to see his two boys who he hasn’t seen properly since November apart from an hour in January. His soon to be ex-wife has ignored all his and my messages about having them to visit - they live in another town. The last time she replied to me she told me in no uncertain terms that grandparents have no rights. The situation isn’t helping his mental health and they have cousins here who miss them. We feel very frustrated by the situation and would love to know if there is a support group in South Yorkshire.

Smileless2012 Wed 19-Feb-20 18:14:19

She's right Funnygran but your GC have a right to know their extended family and your son most definitely has a right to see his own children.

Why oh why do some of these mothers uses their children as weapons to inflict pain and suffering on their children's father's and their paternal GP's.

Flygirl Wed 19-Feb-20 23:52:31

Oh my goodness. Where do I start? Despite my son having a happy childhood (we think!) (with wonderful, warm and loving grandparents, aunts and uncles, who contributed to his life and well being, and whom he saw regularly) he and his long term partner have NEVER invited us to be part of their children's lives.
Our eldest grandson, who is autistic (but it is not discussed), is 10, and his younger brother (not autistic) is 4. For almost 10 years we have had to almost beg to see them. At best, we have been given a "time slot" for an hour, at the most, usually at really inconvenient times in the evening and when the boys are tired, before bed. (They only live 2 miles away, btw).
We have never, ever, been invited to babysit, attend a school production, pick them up from school, have them for a few hours in our home and/or take them out for the day (despite always asking, and being given endless excuses as to why we can't). Have to almost beg and negotiate to see them just once in the summer school holidays. They have never even been in our car. We probably see them 3 or 4 times a year, for an hour, and always accompanied by their father. We have asked why this should be (we both felt so inadequate) but weren't given a reason. We have only seen our eldest grandchild on 2 out of his 10 birthdays. We have never been invited to celebrate with the youngest boy on his birthday(s). My DIL's mother and sister are there every single day and have always been "trusted" to babysit daily, from birth, especially when DIL returned to work part time. They are also invited to all the "normal" events including birthdays and Xmas, as is my DIL's father, who is divorced from her mother. As you can imagine, over the years this has caused such resentment to develop within us, as we simply cannot understand why we are not wanted or even needed. We feel that we are good, honest people who could offer our gorgeous grandsons so, so much love and fun (especially as we understand autism, as my son is also on the spectrum, albeit high functioning).
They never contact us, even to ask how we are. We always have to make that first call and almost beg to see our grandchildren. My dear daughter, who is a bit younger than my son, has also tried to get him to see reason, on our behalf, and for her efforts she has also been "pushed off the radar" for daring to voice an opinion. So the 2 boys are now 'minus' a wonderful, warm, caring aunty, too, and we found out (youngest grandson let it slip) that they are not allowed to speak about her in the home, either.
If my husband and I ever do go to their house (a very rare treat) our DIL "hides" upstairs until we go. Doesn't even shout "hello" from above. At Xmas they never even enquire what we will be doing, or if we'd like to see the boys at some point. (I work shifts, sometimes away from home, and often my husband, who is 70, is totally alone). They know this but never make contact, even by phone. This last Christmas, 2019, we asked so many times when we could see our grandchildren, to at least give them their gifts, but were continually fobbed off. I had to hand over my grandsons' Xmas presents to my son, on my doorstep on Xmas Eve, as he "couldn't stop". (He didn't bring the boys with him, either, and to date, we haven't even heard if they liked their gifts). ?. No thank you's, even by phone.
However, nothing could have prepared us for a totally unexpected, vitriolic and hateful message we received from our DIL early on Boxing Day morning, accusing us of "not even caring enough to ask if the boys had had a nice Christmas" (I was still in bed when her message was written!!), and "thank goodness for her mum and sister, who give her children SO much more love than we ever could, and are apparently everything that we 'lack' ". She told us not to bother to respond to her message as she wouldn't be reading it. My son always backs his partner up, which I guess is normal, but he shows absolutely no feelings or empathy for us and makes no effort to make things right. We haven't heard from either of them since the hateful, cruel text, and have finally had to accept that after 10 years of trying, for our own health and sanity, we have to completely stand back, withdraw from this toxic situation, and let them go. We really feel something is very wrong with their whole family set-up. Something just does not sit right with us. I would go as far as to say I think that one, or both of them, have mental issues to be able to be this cruel towards us for no reason. We truly can't think of anything that we have, or have not done, other than wanting a normal relationship with them. I can only think that we are dealing with the worst kind of narcissm here. Even if we take our needs as grandparents completely out of the equation, they are actually denying their own sons the opportunity to get to know and love us, their other grandparents, and to enable us to enrich their lives. That in itself is cruel? My fear is that our darling grandsons will grow up being told such terrible lies about us and also our daughter. We have all tried so hard to become part of their lives, but, that said, we have never intruded or just "turned up" unexpectedly. We wait patiently for invites, which, of course, never come.

How on earth do we go forward with this impossible situation? How will I ever get peace inside, and sleep properly again? With zero contact, how do we let our grandsons know, that we love them dearly, and have always wanted to be part of their lives? We know we have no 'rights' but I am hurt and completely broken. My husband is more matter-of-fact and is dealing with it better, but I know he is very angry and hurt,, too.

I have to add...whenever the grandchildren have been (rarely) in our company, they are totally relaxed and at ease with us, and we have such fun and giggles, even though it's only ever for an hour or so, 3 or 4 times a year max. When we laugh, my son sits there, stoney faced. I actually asked him in October (the last time we were allowed an accompanied visit) if he ever smiles or laughs around his children? The answer? "Sometimes".... ?

We are totally at a loss to understand all this. Bereft. For me? It is almost like a bereavement. I've lost them.

Thanks for listening.

Funnygran Thu 20-Feb-20 08:11:49

Flygirl I can’t give you any advice in your awful situation but I am horrified to read your post. Just want you to know someone is thinking of you. Please look after yourselves. Maybe when the grandchildren are old enough to act for themselves they will want to make contact with you. A long time to wait but this is what we hope for too. x

Sparkling Thu 20-Feb-20 08:25:20

Flygirl, how awful for you and dh, and your grandchildren missing out. It seems as if whatever you do or font for its wrong, it seems from an outsider that your dil, is jealous and controlling, If you have tried all means to find out the problem, I can't see what ekes you can do. I suppose it's out if the question if you are not on good terms to write and ask for a chance to meet with her and your son to find out the problem. For your own mental health, put you and your husband first now, you deserve it, no one know how many years you will have each other, so make the most of them. I am pretty sure it's not ruining their lives, maybe one day those grand children will seek you out. You can still send cards, presents too if they are acknowledged, if they are not just keep what you would have given them to one side until you do see them. I would give anything to have my husband and I just hope you can botgecoutceach other first. Your son at least should step up but it seems he won't. ?

Smileless2012 Thu 20-Feb-20 09:01:51

As you've said Flygirl, for your own health and sanity you have to stand backsad. This is an awful situation but there's nothing else you can do.

You can continue to send gifts and cards however, if it were me I'd stick to cards for birthdays and Christmas. We have a memory box for our GC and when buying cards always buy 2 of each, one is sent and the other is for their memory box.

You could still ask about seeing your GC without begging and pleading to do so. As for your d.i.l.'s text, what rubbish. Even if she hadn't told you there was no point in replying as she wouldn't read it, it would have been a complete waste of time doing so and IMO wasn't worth replying too anyway.

Like all EGP's you worry about what lies the children are being told, we've done that too but please try not to think and worry about that.

Your GC do know you. They haven't seen very much of you but they have those memories of the "fun and giggles" they've shared with you.

The hardest and most painful thing for you to achieve is acceptance. The pain never leaves but with acceptance eventually comes some peace and more restful sleep.

I'm so sorry that you and your husband are being treated with such crueltyflowers.